[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] our p2p/commons contribution to Journey to Earthland (GTN Discussion) (Michel Bauwens)

Mon Nov 7 15:35:24 CET 2016

That's interesting Bob, do you have any details?

> On 7 Nov 2016, at 13:58, Bob Haugen <bob.haugen at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> We worked with a group in Nova Scotia a few years ago that was focused
> on economic issues (especially fishing ports), but early childhood
> development was one of their main themes, and they thought both issues
> were intimately related and inseparable.
> 
>> On Mon, Nov 7, 2016 at 1:53 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>> Military spending is notoriously difficult to observe accurately. However
>> manufactured arms is a better assessment than official defence spending.
>> 
>> "According to research institute, SIPRI, the volume of international
>> transfers of major weapons in 2010–14 was 16 per cent higher than in
>> 2005–2009. The ﬁve biggest exporters in 2010–14 were the United States, the
>> United Kingdom, Russia, China and France, and the ﬁve biggest importers were
>> India, Saudi Arabia, China, the United Arab Emirates (UAE) and Pakistan. The
>> flow of arms to Africa, the Americas, Asia and Oceania, and the Middle East
>> increased significantly between 2005–2009 and 2010–14, while there was a
>> notable decrease in the flow to Europe.
>> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms_industry
>> 
>> When we think of violence being an acceptable part of our daily lives, and
>> the dissociation which this requires, this is more than just numbers
>> however. It is to do with reporting violent crimes, violence in
>> entertainment, video games. It is to do with emotions still being seen as
>> having no part in scientific discourse. There are many aspects of this which
>> result in people accepting soul destroying jobs, increases in anxiety and
>> depression etc. Basically not valuing life.
>> 
>> The foundation for all this is set at birth. It may seem incongruous to
>> introduce babies into a discussion about structural economic transformation.
>> But unless we address those first experiences of a baby's life, it is my
>> belief that we will not be able to shift the power play which dominates all
>> our lives.
>> 
>> Anna
>> 
>> 
>> On 6 Nov 2016, at 13:07, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> 
>> dear Anna,
>> 
>> I fully agree with your perspective and conclusions here, and that we must
>> learn from the good practices of societies before our own, and one's that
>> exist today with better child-rearing practices ..
>> 
>> here are some historical trends on military spending though; it is my
>> understanding that for many western european countries, military spending is
>> down in relative terms, but I checked the UK which is more militaristic than
>> most, it seems down there as well, see 'historical perspectives' here at
>> https://ourworldindata.org/military-spending/
>> 
>> nevertheless with the increasing social and ecological crisis, social
>> instability is again in the air, and it is not at all impossible to see
>> increasing re-armament trends,
>> 
>> Michel
>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 6:39 PM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I am not clear what you both mean by "idealisation". My intention was not
>>> to idealise tribal cultures, but nevertheless there is much that we can
>>> learn from them, particularly as regards to birth practices. The tribal
>>> groups studied were specifically small band hunter gatherers, not tribal
>>> cultures in general. And the point is to take what is good, not import
>>> wholesale. The evidence is based on recent neurobiological research, not
>>> social history.
>>> 
>>> The recent protest at Standing Rock also shows a "tribal" understanding of
>>> the importance of natural resources which western cultures can treat with
>>> breathtaking ignorance.
>>> 
>>> But I must take objection to the idea that "Military training is now for
>>> volunteer professionals, and the kind of de-sensitizing practices are not
>>> nearly as generalized as they once were". War is a constant part of our
>>> lives, and military expenditure is increasing not decreasing. That in itself
>>> reveals a general de-sensitising towards wholesale destruction of people and
>>> planet. Many still enter the military because it's the only job open to them
>>> without qualifications, and they are treated as heroes.
>>> 
>>> If a newborn experiences the world as a hostile place, everything that
>>> comes after is fitted into that paradigm, unless much work is done to
>>> counteract that impression. It will also affect the neurobiological
>>> development of the newborn, in damaging ways that are difficult to reverse.
>>> That is why I am emphasising the need to focus on that entry point, to
>>> ensure that as far as possible, the experience of the newborn is tenderly
>>> loving and sensitively cared for. Leading hopefully to the conclusion of
>>> Michel's last paragraph, with which I strongly agree.
>>> 
>>> On 6 Nov 2016, at 10:24, peter waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> A good argument, I think, Michel, especially since it has more general
>>> implications for facile references to 'el buen vivir' or 'ubuntu'.
>>> 
>>> I make such references myself but by 'facile' I mean an idealisation of
>>> the pre-capitalist, pre-class, non-western, society. Such references might
>>> serve as useful sticks with which to batter idealised/essentialised Western
>>> civilisation/culture, but they hardly help us to dialogue either with such
>>> tiny/isolated autonomous formations as might still exist, even less to
>>> relate to contemporary indigenous communities, deeply affected by consumer
>>> fetishism, equipped with cellphones, and taking action on their own behalves
>>> in manners that require (self-)reflection.
>>> 
>>> P
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 4:01 PM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> There is much evidence to show that competitiveness and anxiety traits,
>>>>> built in to our modern birth and child rearing practices, support the trend
>>>>> towards violence in later life. The lack of care at this crucial point in
>>>>> life, sets the tone for later states of dissociation which allow military
>>>>> personnel to destroy other human beings without compunction, as well as the
>>>>> general lack of connection with the natural environment on which we all
>>>>> depend.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> so first a general remark of your critique. I guess I'm an
>>>> integrative-structuralist, which means that what you suggest is part of my
>>>> approach, and is well documented on our wiki, but, in this contribution, I
>>>> focus on the structural necessity of the commons/caring shift, which is
>>>> inevitably linked to the underlying psycho-bodily-relational structures.
>>>> 
>>>> But this being said, I can't agree with the idealization of the
>>>> paragraph. We actually now know that tribal cultures were <more> violent
>>>> than state-based systems, not less, and that the attachment parenting (which
>>>> is good, and I have practiced largely with my children, but especially the
>>>> last two), was inextricably linked to the desensitization produced by the
>>>> male initiation rituals.
>>>> 
>>>> Reading the the Institute of Psycho-History, and especially their very
>>>> well-document 'History of Child Abuse", is very instructive. In fact, we
>>>> have now a unprecedented number of children who have been education through
>>>> democratic and respectful parenting, and they are the ones driving the peer
>>>> to peer/ commons / collaborative culture we draw on. Military training is
>>>> now for volunteer professionals, and the kind of de-sensitizing practices
>>>> are not nearly as generalized as they once were.
>>>> 
>>>> There are of course huge pockets of the population (say the Trump voters,
>>>> and the books of George Makoff), where authoritarian education continues to
>>>> be the norm, and produces authoritarian personalities. And the migration of
>>>> countries where such repressive practices are still the norm, create
>>>> additional problems (it's the rural migration from Anatolia which
>>>> overwhelmed the secular state in Turkey).
>>>> 
>>>> So we should continue to build on the huge cultural shifts set in motion
>>>> by the 1968 revolts, which were politically defeated, but did put in motion
>>>> changes we can built on.
>>>> 
>>>> But of course, I am in agreement that there are still important amounts
>>>> of dis-sociation going on in our child-bearing and child-rearing practices
>>>> ... and that these need to be changed, (taking babies away from their
>>>> mothers as soon as they are born, sleeping in different rooms with anxiety
>>>> provoking baby phones, childcare in anonymous and bureaucratic institutions
>>>> too early in life)
>>>> 
>>>> I also agree we should be re-creating the positive effects of more
>>>> collective child-rearing in renewed community setings ..
>>>> 
>>>> I have been blessed by living the last 12 years in Thailand, where unlike
>>>> my experience in Belgium, both caring for my kids , and caring for my
>>>> Alzheimer-afflicted mother, was 'easy', because of the support of the
>>>> extended family.
>>>> 
>>>> But let's not forget, thai society is also hyper-authoritarian and
>>>> violent, much more than ours, and this is because , 'from 1 to 7, treat your
>>>> children as kings, from 7 to 14, treat them as slaves, from 14 to 21, treat
>>>> them as friends'
>>>> 
>>>> In other words, as I said in the beginning, the attachment parenting is
>>>> replaced with very authoritarian education in the school system.,
>>>> 
>>>> It leads to a society where you dearly love your (extended) family, but
>>>> deeply mistrust anyone outside ... This is what civic societies have
>>>> changed, by extending 'love' to a more broader scope, though still limited
>>>> to the imaginary community of the nation; part of the next phase, is to
>>>> create successful trans-national neo-tribes, firmly rooted in networks of
>>>> physical places, that ca form the basis of an extension of that 'love' to
>>>> humanity as a whole,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Michel
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
>>>> http://commonstransition.org
>>>> 
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>> 
>>>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>> 
>>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Click here for Peter's recent writings
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
>> 
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> 
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> 
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>> 
>> 
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