[P2P-F] Fwd: sysnets-P2P, Greece, BREXIT-Trump-TPP, Chaos/Order/Disorder, Sarason, RYSE

Michel Bauwens michel at p2pfoundation.net
Fri Jul 1 09:15:29 CEST 2016

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: larry victor <nuet1370 at gmail.com>
Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 1:37 PM
Subject: sysnets-P2P, Greece, BREXIT-Trump-TPP, Chaos/Order/Disorder,
Sarason, RYSE
To: nuet1370 at gmail.com
Cc: Tom Greco <thg at mindspring.com>, albert lundquist <agltucs1 at gmail.com>,
Alex Gagnon <gagnon.alex at gmail.com>, Dan Davidson <d-a-n-d at cox.net>, "Dan
R.D." <ddrrnt at gmail.com>, "mentor at slt.lk" <mentor at slt.lk>, Jamie Lantz <
bigmammakaliii at yahoo.com>, MINGO <Mingomigs at centurylink.net>, Joe Brewer <
circlejoe at gmail.com>, Michael Gentry <mgentry70 at gmail.com>, Michel Bauwens <
michel at p2pfoundation.net>, Linda Ellinor <lellinor25 at gmail.com>, Fabio
Barone <holon.earth at gmail.com>, David Pinto <happyseaurchin at gmail.com>,
David Braden <d-braden at comcast.net>, HELENE FINIDORI <hfinidori at gmail.com>,
Lynne <thisistheoperatingsystem at gmail.com>, George Por <
george at community-intelligence.com>, Glistening Deepwater <
gdeepwater at gmail.com>, John Ringland <john.ringland at anandavala.info>, Rosa
Zubizarreta <rosalegria00 at gmail.com>, Alexander Robert Laszlo <
alaszlo at itba.edu.ar>, Anthony Judge <anthony.judge at gmail.com>

Friends & Colleagues,  relevant thoughts of the day - in the order they
came to mind, although those further down may be more significant.

I found this url interesting, a short voice history of the Greece
entrapment - general. Economic systems trapping countries into debt.  Long
ago I read such stories online. But, they are few and spotty. When we see
them we think that the media is covering it, but it really isn't. How much
do we over-estimate the knowledge others have about what we know?

Might the Global Corporate System be behind BREXIT and the future breakup
of EU.  The corporate global systems wants to isolate all "governments" and
make them only worker bees for them. Our election may lead to the breakdown
(sever weakening) of the Federal System of the USA.  USA military and NATO
could continue as military arms of corporations.  It won't be explicit.
"Governments" will continue to be presented as "fronts" on which to focus
and anger of the public.

TPP or Trump?  If Trump is elected, he won't last - unless he can be used.
TPP will be approved - so long as the Global Corps Rule.  Hillary will
approve a slightly modified TPP.

What system would be best to handle Real Climate Change, Total Global
Corporate or Waring Nations? Unified nations won't be permitted by the
Global Corporate Elite.

If the governments are controlled by the Corps, and the people are
convinced of this, then the people may abandon trying to reform governments
and begin action against the real bosses, or go UPLIFT.

Read today that the Northern Jet Stream dipped below the equator - for the
first time in recorded history.

Have you seen any Order - Disorder  ratio comparisons for humankind?  Hard
to measure, but the degree of order today may be illusionary.  Also,
established system show disorder; activists show chaos.

I like to distinguish Disorder from Chaos.  From it's Greek origins, Chaos
is the font of Order.  Order Emerges from Chaos.  Disorder emerges from
Order.  Imagine superimposing many songs or pictures. Perception would be
chaos, but underneath are many orders waiting to be seen or heard if
filtered.  The many new activist processes emergent today, when not
coordinated, interfere as chaos.

About two decades ago, when I first distinguished between nets and systems,
I proposed that as a whole entity, nets can't do anything other than the
simple sum of the doings of its nodes. By adding constraints on the
relations between nodes in a net, the net shifts to being (the skeleton of)
systems, which can do more than the simple sum of their components. P2P may
be demonstrating impotence, in spite of the very high quality of activity
in the nets, because they see themselves in conflict with systems - which
from the net perspective are too top-down and authoritarian. Network
perspectives may have too much "individualism" ideology. I need to develop
this and get the P2P Foundation's analysis. I favor a dynamic of sysnets
alternating between being primarily networks and occasional formation of
temporary systems, returning back to more open networks.

My poor memory just brought up that Seymour Sarason wrote deeply on the
conflict between nets and systems in his two volume reporting on his 1970s
experimentation with *Resource Exchange Networks (REN)*.
Reading his Wikipedia bio and other more current reports of his great
productivity, I am very disappointed that there is no mention (other than a
listing in his full list of publications) of this landmark work. I now
realize that his work in the 1970s foresaw the P2P movement, and a REN
remains a network type that we need. I now see the relationship between an
REN and Zuboff's *Support Economy*, which I have generalized to a SEAFnet.
This merits a separate blog post. If P2P isn't aware of Sarason, they need

George Carlin calls for the need of UPLIFT:
XKIUHTEZCATL Martinez (now 16) is someone to watch:

My latest post: http://nuet.us/2016/06/30/are-we-all-on-the-titanic/

Enough for now.


Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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