[P2P-F] Micro and nano-tribunes and power generators

Sat Jan 9 22:35:44 CET 2016

On Saturday, January 09, 2016 07:53:12 AM Anna Harris wrote:
> Brilliant Orsan, every time we flush the loo,  or clean our teeth, we
> produce electricity!
> 
> On Jan 9, 2016 1:48 AM, "Orsan" <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The title got me think of real micro- or nano-turbine technologies being
> > developed to produce electricity. For instance, if used inside water pipes
> > and ways, such technology would turn entire city and rural delivery and
> > sanitation systems more productive at the micro and nano levels then huge
> > dams and other smaller central hydro electricity generators.

If we were really doing efficient home and community design you probably 
wouldn't be flushing toilets.  Solutions like composting toilets require no 
centralized sewage infrastructure.  Centralized distribution of water can also 
be problematic as seen currently in Flint [1].  In permaculture, isn't getting 
water to where it needs to be done using the entire landscape rather than a 
narrow network of pipes or canals?

Sustainable and distributed infrastructure must tend towards simplicity and 
openness.  This means operating with fewer components that have fewer 
dependencies so that local customization can easily be done.  Adding an extra 
layer of complexity (wires, batteries, and magnets) on top of an existing 
poorly performing system (sewer and water) seems like a step in the wrong 
direction.

On Sat, Jan 9, 2016 at 5:23 AM, Roberto Verzola <rverzola at gn.apc.org> wrote:
> I just finished the piece "Can micropower be as deep a game-changer as
> microprocessing?" It can be downloaded at:
>
>
> https://rverzola.wordpress.com/2016/01/07/can-micropower-become-as-deep-a-game-changer-as-microprocessing/
>
> By "deep", I mean being able to change the rules of the game not only
> within the industry itself but in society as a whole. In the piece, I
> note that the declining prices of renewables such as solar and wind
> seem to have brought the renewables sector at the same take-off point
> that microprocessing was some three decades ago.

The microprocessors we buy are nice but the process that makes them are still 
controlled by a small number of corporations.  Restated, individuals can use 
these "micro" things to their advantage, but at the cost of being utterly 
dependent on a global system of capitalist production over which they have no 
control.  It's the social relations of production that need to "deeply" 
change, and no fancy gadget is going to do that for you.

-Karl

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/oct/04/flint-michigan-lead-water-children-health