[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] a short response to queries about the p2p'f workings in WSF

Wed Aug 17 10:52:46 CEST 2016

I am ending any conversation with you Orsan, not because of your threats,
but you are sucking an enormous amount of energy out of people who are all
trying to do their best to make the world a better place,

if you don't like people who gets things done, find a forum where you can
critique others all day long, and get whatever pleasure you get out of this
behaviour, but please pretty please, stop doing this here,

I am totally done,

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 2:51 AM, Orsan <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Michel, it is not a factual correction, it is a lie. And if you go down
> like this with hitting under belly, and with such disgusting lies, showing
> your real face, I would only hit back with reality and it would only be
> worse for you. Everyone who knows and watches you would feel this sneaky
> tone, for what life style you chose, and who would actually be bagging for
> something material from people. I am not like any others you discussed
> before in this tone publicly, and against all I defended you to some extent
> in the past. I would be careful if I were you.
>
>
>
> On 16 aug. 2016, at 20:26, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
> wrote:
>
> ok one more time a factual correction ..
>
> Orsan was in desperate material traits and begged for material support,
>
> at that time, I was myself extremely precarious, just so people know what
> that means ... it ain't fun, I had a 3 month lecture tour with ashmatic
> bronchitis, but no cash for medicine nor to go a physician .. (luckily
> after a few weeks I arrive in Greece and got free medical help <g>)
>
> the p2p-f was not yet directly funded at all, but occasionally got access
> to research grants,
>
> so I proposed to Orsan, that he could assist with some coordination of
> monitoring the p2p/labor convergence, as I was doing for
> http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Labor, then he would become part of our
> contributory 'core' group, and if any grant opportunities came along, I
> would easily point them to him, and propose is collaboration in
> consortium's in which we would be a part .. ; this was the only way we
> could help people, and we have given work to two dozen researchers in that
> way, so it was also a realistic one,
>
> in the good tradition of 'no good deed ever goes unpunished', what I got
> in response was a sea of insults and accusations, that I was living a rich
> lifestyle, lying about my precarity, and that everybody knew that the p2p-f
> was a well-funded organisation ... This came at a very difficult moment for
> me, and did not go down well ... it was one thing to make sacrifices for
> some thing you believe in, it is quite another to get no recognition and
> even awful and unsupported allegations from some one you are trying to
> help... regular asphyxiating cough did not make it easier .. I can assure
> the people that the kind of accusations I got were several degrees more
> severe than what Orsan is accusing people in this list of ..
>
> This was the end of any trust I had in Orsan as an activist, but I decided
> not to make it public, and continue respectful dialogue, but this
> continuous stream of unsupported attacks makes my stomach turn,
>
> so once more, I announce I will stop reacting, until the next outrageous
> statement awakes the wrong reactive button <g>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> It was 3 years ago may be amongst all others things you do can't remember
>> well; but what you offered was not a support to me, you offered me to be
>> the 'labour person' of the foundation since there was no one intellectually
>> and theory wise good enough at your network.
>>
>> My reply was after saying I appreciated a lot for the offer; was like
>> this: 'for me it is more adequate to be independent from any group or
>> institution, since I was active in autonomous movements' and I had my own
>> projects to build.
>>
>> It was never about any doubt about your intentions or grand strategy to
>> serve the enemy, consciously. What I do address from the beginning is the
>> structural dynamical, political and ideological forces that are several
>> steps ahead. And If there is any one (else then myself - since I know my
>> self better then anyone else) I can trust in the capacity and creativity of
>> being able to see the whole (also enemy grand strategy) and generate
>> reversal perspective, that would have been you. But the networks you
>> encounter, or chose to involve and engage, have put me in doubt several
>> times about your genuine intention.
>>
>> Again, I never accused you or anyone; not even thought of you as CIA
>> agent or anything like that. My doubt has been simply between if you, and
>> others do what you or they do simply for your or their own gains or really
>> for the objectives you or they claim to commit. This doubt is hard to proof
>> but is totally different then what you suggest me to have about you / or
>> others. That is why I would always read your (and others' work) writings,
>> and benefit from them fully; but more then before I would prefer to stay in
>> distance from any organic tie with you, thus the foundation, as I wouldn't
>> with TNI, or similar NGOs, or trade unions, or political parties; where
>> people are experts of appearing idealist and committed to cause while all
>> they do best is to work for themselves as prior and promote them as good.
>>
>> At least, before I stop and out too, should I say i am happy to hear that
>> your precarious days are over finally.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Orsan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 16 Aug 2016, at 14:45, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > n fact, you will remember that in a period where most of us and myself
>> included, were suffering from extreme precarity, we still wanted to engage
>> in seeking support for your work ... that you found this offer offensive
>> and proof that I was a rich CIA agent, is your prerogative .. but it also
>> meant that from that moment on, while I would still dialogue, I would keep
>> you with long pole away ...
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:
> http://commonstransition.org
>
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>
>

-- 
Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
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