[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] a short response to queries about the p2p'f workings in WSF

Tue Aug 16 21:51:47 CEST 2016

Michel, it is not a factual correction, it is a lie. And if you go down like this with hitting under belly, and with such disgusting lies, showing your real face, I would only hit back with reality and it would only be worse for you. Everyone who knows and watches you would feel this sneaky tone, for what life style you chose, and who would actually be bagging for something material from people. I am not like any others you discussed before in this tone publicly, and against all I defended you to some extent in the past. I would be careful if I were you. 

> On 16 aug. 2016, at 20:26, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> 
> ok one more time a factual correction ..
> 
> Orsan was in desperate material traits and begged for material support,
> 
> at that time, I was myself extremely precarious, just so people know what that means ... it ain't fun, I had a 3 month lecture tour with ashmatic bronchitis, but no cash for medicine nor to go a physician .. (luckily after a few weeks I arrive in Greece and got free medical help <g>)
> 
> the p2p-f was not yet directly funded at all, but occasionally got access to research grants,
> 
> so I proposed to Orsan, that he could assist with some coordination of monitoring the p2p/labor convergence, as I was doing for http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Labor, then he would become part of our contributory 'core' group, and if any grant opportunities came along, I would easily point them to him, and propose is collaboration in consortium's in which we would be a part .. ; this was the only way we could help people, and we have given work to two dozen researchers in that way, so it was also a realistic one,
> 
> in the good tradition of 'no good deed ever goes unpunished', what I got in response was a sea of insults and accusations, that I was living a rich lifestyle, lying about my precarity, and that everybody knew that the p2p-f was a well-funded organisation ... This came at a very difficult moment for me, and did not go down well ... it was one thing to make sacrifices for some thing you believe in, it is quite another to get no recognition and even awful and unsupported allegations from some one you are trying to help... regular asphyxiating cough did not make it easier .. I can assure the people that the kind of accusations I got were several degrees more severe than what Orsan is accusing people in this list of ..
> 
> This was the end of any trust I had in Orsan as an activist, but I decided not to make it public, and continue respectful dialogue, but this continuous stream of unsupported attacks makes my stomach turn,
> 
> so once more, I announce I will stop reacting, until the next outrageous statement awakes the wrong reactive button <g>
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 16, 2016 at 8:29 PM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> It was 3 years ago may be amongst all others things you do can't remember well; but what you offered was not a support to me, you offered me to be the 'labour person' of the foundation since there was no one intellectually and theory wise good enough at your network.
>> 
>> My reply was after saying I appreciated a lot for the offer; was like this: 'for me it is more adequate to be independent from any group or institution, since I was active in autonomous movements' and I had my own projects to build.
>> 
>> It was never about any doubt about your intentions or grand strategy to serve the enemy, consciously. What I do address from the beginning is the structural dynamical, political and ideological forces that are several steps ahead. And If there is any one (else then myself - since I know my self better then anyone else) I can trust in the capacity and creativity of being able to see the whole (also enemy grand strategy) and generate reversal perspective, that would have been you. But the networks you encounter, or chose to involve and engage, have put me in doubt several times about your genuine intention.
>> 
>> Again, I never accused you or anyone; not even thought of you as CIA agent or anything like that. My doubt has been simply between if you, and others do what you or they do simply for your or their own gains or really for the objectives you or they claim to commit. This doubt is hard to proof but is totally different then what you suggest me to have about you / or others. That is why I would always read your (and others' work) writings, and benefit from them fully; but more then before I would prefer to stay in distance from any organic tie with you, thus the foundation, as I wouldn't with TNI, or similar NGOs, or trade unions, or political parties; where people are experts of appearing idealist and committed to cause while all they do best is to work for themselves as prior and promote them as good.
>> 
>> At least, before I stop and out too, should I say i am happy to hear that your precarious days are over finally.
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Orsan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On 16 Aug 2016, at 14:45, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > n fact, you will remember that in a period where most of us and myself included, were suffering from extreme precarity, we still wanted to engage in seeking support for your work ... that you found this offer offensive and proof that I was a rich CIA agent, is your prerogative .. but it also meant that from that moment on, while I would still dialogue, I would keep you with long pole away ...
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org  
> 
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net 
> 
> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> 
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/ 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20160816/d5068573/attachment.html>