[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] An Open Letter to the Fabian Society (was: Re: New models of leadership)

[Orsan]

Kevin I guess this give more derailed insights of your position, hope it is okay to share here: https://c4ss.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/SomeRevCarson.pdf

Orsan


> On 7 aug. 2016, at 04:33, Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> In my opinion "reformism" and gradualism are two entirely different
> things -- the difference being that the later envisons a transition to
> a system that is fundamentally different, but simply sees the
> transition as a medium- or long-term process, whereas the former wants
> to stabilize and ameliorate the existing system of power.
> 
> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 5:23 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> As for your reply, what is very striking that not the lack of clarity
>>> of your opinions on Fabians and relation to Fabianism, but rather a
>>> weak confirmation you have given only one thing find good in it;
>>> namely guild socialism; or cooperative solidarity economy vision. I
>>> would guess this means you believe in gradual change instead of
>>> full-force attack at the heart of the machine; which kills billions of
>>> people and destroy the planet; the main principle of the Fabians.
>> 
>> 
>> Dear Orsan,
>> 
>> it seems we are re-doing here the 250 year old battle between revoluton and
>> reformism, and that your critique of Pat, and sometimes of me, is that we
>> are reformists.
>> 
>> Personally, I don't see myself as a reformism in the sense it was defined,
>> 
>> but, I do consider this:
>> 
>> * the record of revolution is abysmal, with at least 100 million death when
>> the revolutionaries were in power (the soviet one, but the earlier french
>> was almost as dramatic); and an untold number during the ongoing defeats of
>> those that did not succeed
>> 
>> * the record of social democracy in its golden age was extraordinary, at
>> least for the western working class, but I would argue, if you look at
>> national liberation, that was also a fundamental advance, not to mention
>> civil, gender rights etc ..
>> 
>> * but even the revolutionaries who were combatting reformism, were not
>> against reforms
>> 
>> * now, there is a lot of evidence of social unrest, there were social and
>> political and electoral s shifts that brought progressives to power, but is
>> there any evidence that global south workers for example are revolutionary
>> .. I would argue, they are not, even as they fight radically for social and
>> labor improvements
>> 
>> People like Pat Conaty , and myself, want post-capitalist structural
>> reforms, and a phase transition, but at the same time, we are not opposed to
>> reforms and to any social advances that social movements can win
>> 
>> we want full and real democratization, an end to extractive regimes and
>> practices
>> 
>> yet, you continuously paint us as enemies it seems, and use a sliding scale
>> that always ends up with the enemies of the people
>> 
>> it always seems that your real enemy is not the 1%, but those of the 99% who
>> do not share your views ..
>> 
>> I see pat conaty, john restakis and others in the network for a cooperative
>> commonwealth and synergia, as people with a lifelong record of fighting for
>> the betterment of their fellow humans
>> 
>> they want reforms, but they are not reformists,
>> 
>> Michel
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org
>> 
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> 
>> Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> 
>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>> 
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>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kevin Carson
> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory
> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> 
> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow
> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous
> 
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