[P2P-F] [NetworkedLabour] [WSF-Discuss] Human Use of Human Beings by SS. Wiener (1989)

Mon Aug 17 21:52:51 CEST 2015

> Did they know what they were doing? There is an interesting discussion of this in Michael Frayn's Copenhagen. Where does Heisenberg fit in with this? What about Moritz Schlick and Kurt Grelling  . . .  oh they murdered by the Nazis.

It is a very fascinating play -seems like performance itself designed in a way actors were moving and interacting complex systems in a unified field; from Bogdanov's point of view communism, Nazis, and west would be seen part of same complex system whose parts forming each other. As it portrayed well in the play, as individual complex systems personalities, family back grounds, relations to scientific community all play their role, but so with all of us. Are we all irresponsible from our less big of passions leading us to adventures that can hurt or enslave others?

> Neurath's name is not on the list. Like Bogdanov he was both a Machist and a Marxist. He was one of the people dismissed by Hayek in the Socialist Calculation Debate. Neurath was central to Vienna Circle and Ernst Mach Verein. (I would like to know more about the Mach Circle in Chicago.)

Besides exciting details waiting to be unfolded, the line of Manger-Mises-Hayek-Friedman-Rand-Greenspan- and their links and influences on cybernetics and systems theories on the one hand, and behavioralist-cognitive turn as structural elements in the rise of neoliberalism and informationalism; in order to look for their antithesis both in Bogdanov and Tektology, and similar line of praxis follows from him in the last century. 

> Working on the bomb? Did they understand? Maybe with hindsight. I think they were seduced by Anti-fascism, thanks to being petrified by the Nazis.

Agree very much, so used and manipulated in between SS, KGB, CIA, and MI6. 

> Silicon Valley was as a much a product of radicals around the Midpeninsula Free University before the transformation of the initials VC from Viet Cong to Venture Capitalism.

will be reading about! 

Here one can think of Canvas, Otpor, Gene Sharp's work on nonviolence, US universities (Harvard and MIT) connection, in opposition or parallel to some autonomists - anarchist - situationist text. 

> I feel we need a more sophisticated understanding of how changes of thinking relate to social movements. 

agree very much,

> Bogdanov was active in the period before the destruction of the revolutionary movement in central and eastern Europe. Whether he committed suicide is certainly a possibility. However he did try and save the life of Leonid Krasin, a friend of his and key bolshevik appartachnik. After the second World War Bohr certainly changed his viewpoint being an early advocate of open culture (See Open Copenhagen).
>  all the best 
>    
and thanks for rich sources!

best, 
orsan
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