[P2P-F] Fwd: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area elites?

[willi uebelherr]

Dear Gordon,

many thanks for your answer and your information. I am very curious to 
read your report and analysis.

But for a comment, i think, i have not enough inside knowledge and my 
experience with FLOK can not be generalized. Other friends, like Quiliro 
and Franz, are stronger connected.

The general question for me is, can this way leads to a real 
transformation? Or is that a Joke, a theatre?

Your Note, that as little Ecuadorians are involved, that can really 
decide and develope, i think is fundamental.

We stay outside and try to understand the process. For that we need the 
understanding of the individual interests of the people, that are 
involved. With your last report I got better insights.

But, how can i read your new report? I thank you and Michel for 
publishing your last report.

many greetings, willi
Jinotepe, Nicaragua


Am 24/05/2014 22:11, schrieb Gordon Cook:
> Hi Wili
>
>
> in the next seven days i will be coming out with a large cook report where i have finally and much too late done my own research on what folk is and how in the hell it got started.
>
>   I agree with you the summit is shaping up to be a carefully scripted farce
>
> I don't have the link in front of me but there is one now public that shows the tables
> 13 of them
>
>
> michel's transition paper that he has told me he considers the most important document of the project doesn't have a table.  It has been deep sixed not by the government but by flok management meaning daniel vasquez.  As you yourself saw earlier today there is a link on the fl
> ok wiki where michel 24,000 word document  can still be found with a status update informing readers what has happened …that management has ordered that it won't be discussed
>
>   and yet bernardo is orchestrating a campaign using thunderclap to use social media to get people to pay attention
>
> I am going to publish not later than may 31.  Will you be attending?  I would appreciate 200 to 400 word comments from you or any attendees  on what is accomplished.  FLOK?  If you look at Bethany horns writing from last september the founders are three spaniards, a citizen of belgium Michel and a canadian bethany….. Oh and one ecuadoran who has left FLOK
>
> I better stop and go to bed.  I believe that folk will wind up damaging michel's work which is unfortunate.  But at this point daniel Vazquez looks to me like Franco Iacomella 2.0.  I am worried that NSA is going to have the last laugh.  Something that none of us i believe wants to see.  And let me be very clear that i certainly hope there that i am wrong
>
> where are the equadorans in FLOK?  Really really few and far between
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> On May 24, 2014, at 10:18 PM, willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dear Brian,
>>
>> we don't know us. I read your texts in the maillist from P2P Foundation. Never you find a way for any transition from your point of view. You look to the top and not to the base.
>>
>> You wrote:
>> "What has typically been lacking, among the sectors oriented
>> toward p2p and the commons, is a real understanding of how important state institutions and industrial development still is. If we want to influence the responses to the crisis, we have to be aware of these things and actively deal with them."
>>
>> This is the core of your thinking. You look like the rabbit at the snake. But if you go more and more inside in the economy, then you understand, that state institutions and industry are not important. We don't need it.
>>
>> And the actors in this areas know it very clear. The result is the construction of more and more regulation and the propaganda for this instances.
>>
>> In the economy we don't find money. Only in the distribution system. And all, about what you wrote, have only his roots in the distribution system.
>>
>> You have to totally disolve all the dogmas, which you torment.
>>
>> Also the FLOK project in Ecuador can never be effective. This, because the state institutions are the destinations. But this are primarly parasitic institutions. They exist basicly on the extractivism, against the people in Ecuador, against the Indigenas.
>>
>> All this people in the state institutions and FLOK project are hoping for a good income without any working. The only way to change the world are the independent Comunas. Based on a independendent local economy and this is always based on local technical infrastructures.
>>
>> We have to search for ways to create this. It means, to help the local people to create her independent economy. And this include all the decision-making power. Then the states are superfluous.
>>
>> A very good text to the theoretical foundations of the FLOK project and P2P Foundations is the text from Jakob Rigi:
>>
>> The Coming Revolution of Peer Production and Revolutionary Cooperatives. A Response to Michel Bauwens, Vasilis Kostakis and Stefan Meretz.
>> http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/486
>>
>> many greetings, willi
>> Jinotepe, Nicaragua
>>
>>
>> Am 24/05/2014 15:05, schrieb Michel Bauwens:
>>> a mustread of Brian Holmes
>>>
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Brian Holmes <bhcontinentaldrift at gmail.com>
>>> Date: Sat, May 24, 2014 at 2:41 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Networkedlabour] <nettime> Consensus within the Bay Area
>>> elites?
>>> To: Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>, Jaap van Till <
>>> vantill at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Michel, it's great to hear from you. Your ideas are often on my mind: I
>>> consider you the most precise, most generous and least compromised exponent
>>> of the cooperative economy, which is clearly the best thing to have emerged
>>> out of the short-lived growth surge of the 1990s. It is typical of you to
>>> write immediately whenever someone expresses anything like an idea or a
>>> proposal. Your attentiveness is really much appreciated.
>>>
>>> ...
>>
>
>