[P2P-F] [P2P-es] P2P dual language - en dos idiomas

[Örsan Şenalp]

Hi Michel, thanks for the reply! I tried to reply back and clarify
what I meant, in between lines..


"I don't disagree with your characterisation of the rifkin/stiglitz
positioning, but I have perhaps a different view on 'class' or social
alliances,"

Fair enough!


"certainly in the west, there is a clear process of the dwindling of
the industrial working class (between 17 and 23% of the European
working population); a clear de-proletarisation (both through access
to means of production, and through non-salaried precarisation) but
the growth of a networked knowledge-based working class ...but this
class is multi-layered and very flexible in its social conditions: it
can be salaried one day, freelancing the other, in start-up mode, etc
.. a substantial minority of this 'class' is both allied to commons
producing communities and entrepreneurial .."


Though, reading your answer above and below, I realised that that was
not clear what I meant. Actually, as far as I am aware of, you or
those writers-thinkers or practitioners who organically tied to or
associated with P2P– Commons-Transition ideas, who are helping to
expand these debates publicly, are yet to deliver full analysis of the
class enemies of the commons. As Sun Tzu once said, it is mortally
important to know the enemy so well so that you can really see who is
a friend. So in my opinion knowing the enemy problem is kind of
prerequisite, and if I do not make a mistake it is not yet answered or
widely debated yet amongst the lists or blogs related to these
discussions. So it is about the nature or contradictions shaping the
Class War of which  Warren Buffet, the second richest capitalist who
occupies the Wall Street, has been talking about. Or why he was
talking about, addressing to who after the crisis he was part of, and
as if who was not one of the front line warriors! So what I was
referring the intra-capitalist or ruling class struggle and alliances
/ historic blocs (within the West, the rest, and transnationally)
being formed by the ruling classes.


"so to be clear: if traditional labour is dwindling, the whole classic
debate about class alliances led by the working class become very
problematic .. and: if the precarious knowledge labour class is facing
changeable social conditions which include enterpreneurialism, then a
hostility to it is equally problematic

so my approach is to look for a broad coalition, not for a violent
social transformation, but for the creation of commons-friendly state
and private structures, that allow for a deep autonomisation of civil
society and ethical entrepreneurship

the coalition I propose entails: the precarious knowledge workers, and
their digital culture political expressions (pirates, platform
parties, digital commons orientation); what remains of the govt'al and
industrial working class (the new transformative left parties like
syriza, podemos, i..e. industrial commons); the greens (older
knowledge working class, natural commons orientation), and the
progressive enterpreneurial forces (alternative)."


I stated the above, because I sincerely believe that without having
an, as clear as possible, analysis on the configuration (but also
strategy, strength, and weakness of) struggling ruling classes –at
least one comparable to one you just give about the labour or partly
other ‘ruled’ classes and [collaborative P2P] alliances amongst them
you identified below- remains mainly ideational, meaning
political-analytic, if not arbitrary.

"I do not call for a class alliance with elite forces (as hardt and
negri suggested we do), nor with radical right forces who are also
against big government and big banks (the nader approach), but I do
call for an alliance with those that want to reform the market
dynamics.

In this sense, I don't see rifkin/stieglitz with a vision of a half
empty glass, but as half-full, as individuals who, despite their elite
affiliations, represent steps in the right direction. We are not
talking here about alliances with right wing parties, we are talking
about a critical but positive interpretation of what their emergence
means.

"Here, is the thin line. An alignment can be on the discourse level,
organically and networked. As alignment occurs by including key
personal ties between and via organic intellectuals and institutions
–those who are trying to manage a new historic blocs and save the
entirety of the system. The increasingly efficient form networked-
hierarchical alliances [working like marketing chains, lower layers
earns lower bonuses]. So in my opinion all these three aspects needs
to be analysed well, to evaluate the intra-, inter-, or cross-class
alliances.

Here are some good articles and books, which I can share:
http://netglobalcapitalism.wordpress.com/articles/
http://web.uvic.ca/~wcarroll/research.htm
http://jebsprague.blogspot.nl/

In relation to workers and unions role in relation to capital today I
liked this analysis of Bill Fletcher, since it is close to how I see
it: https://usilive.org/iss14-capitalism-anti-capitalism-and-the-trade-union-movement/

"when you mention kautsky and lenin ... do you know that kautsky and
the SD members voted against the war, but they were over-ruled by the
trade union faction of their party"

I would vote for peace, whenever and whatever it takes, or may be
would not vote at all.. but do something hard for peace.. have to read
about the context of the above event.

"so I suggest a third position, that of rosa luxemburg, who strongly
warned lenin against relying on only one governance form, that of the
soviets, and suggested keeping the parliament and representative
institutions as a counterweight ..

lenin ended up outlawing all political forces but his own, preparing
the emergence of Stalinism .. was he really right ?"

Here, since Lenin had the feeling that one has to attack fiercely who
ever oppose him -even a sincere revolutionist,  communist, Bolshevik
doesn’t matter since it was about making what you believe so your
analysis/thesis structurally powerful in the hierarchical-party
organs, the emancipatory social organisation was itself conflicting
with the idea of emancipation. Here is the key inter-locking argument
to link up with the other tread [with Fabio and Michel] that today,
there is this p2p advancement via internet and other changes in
society and substructure, it is possible to imagine, design and form
collaborative alliances between ideologically or in terms of analysis
standing in varying positions. One might choose to get in direct or
indirect solidarity with other, even there is no organic/weak ties in
between it is possible to support an action, community, event etc.

"of course we can be critical of rifkin/stieglizt and stress their
insufficiencies, but that doesn't mean that at this stage, it is
useful or productive to seem them as enemies ; in my understanding,
they both support democratisation of politics and the ethicalisation
of economics, goals which are in alignment with my own goals ..

I'm in favour to combine a radical agenda of structural
transformation, with an ongoing co-constructive and meliorist politics
based on pragmatic alliances around common goals,

that doesn't mean working with everyone, you will notice that I don't
even mention social-democrats nor the right parties in my proposal for
a coalition of the commons

I'm recently thinking about how to conceive of class alliance parties,
like the christian democrats .. (I know they are very right wing in
the netherlands, but not so in belgium, where they have progressive
wings) ... the reason is that social-catholic movements are reacting
very positively to p2p ideas"

"As a mid-conclusion, one might choose with which agency and to what
extend in what forms. P2P infrastructures and networks allow us to see
and analyse that and decide to what level engagment with those nodes
is possible and needed.

This possibility, brings about the chance to form counter-vectoral
class alliance and transformative power [in analogy with Wark’s
vectoral class] that can generate harminse transformative impact at
various levels societies divided in.

To know the enemy here is the key again, and making the network maps
of the enemy public, as Wikileaks managed to show the glimpse of how
can that be done, with idea-practice-courage-quantum logic-and the
network.

orsan