[P2P-F] [P2P-es] P2P dual language - en dos idiomas

Sat Jul 19 06:29:36 CEST 2014

hi Orsan,

not sure who exactly the original idea came from, but the high level expert
group and the names came to me via Carlos Prieto,

I do not share the qualms about working with someone like Stiglitz, because
in the context in which we are working, high level moderate progressive
economist do lend legitimacy to proposals and projects

broad social change needs broad coalitions and stiglizs is in my view at
the side of the labour and social movements

in the end this high level group, which would also have included
post-autonomistts like andrea fumagally etc ..,  never got funded nor
materialized

Michel

On Sat, Jul 19, 2014 at 12:43 AM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

> It May sound off the track, yet while I was checking FLOK management page,
> I did see list of experts and advisors and who suggested them. I saw that
> Daniel Vasquez did recommend as macro economic advisor famous ex head of
> IMF, later it's self-critical economist!! Can anyone confirm and explain
> what is the logic of appointing Joseph Stiglitz as an high level expert and
> advisor to a project like this, aiming Ecuador's transition to a FLOK
> society? For me these are kind of really problematic co-optative steps
> needs to be avoided and criticized. I have been waiting and waiting from
> Bernardo, Xabier and Daniel any kind of reaction or self-reflexive report,
> noting heard anything or am not yet aware of. Than I started to get
> suspicious are there  Conscious steps taken and are we being pulled in
> alternative p2p - commons Keynesian project? So partner state can be
> sounding very nice theory, yet at the end it can turn into they are state,
> some of us partners and business goes usual for the billions, and the
> commons.. What kind of consciousness and check and balance we will be able
> to build. Another initiative I found about is Global Marshall Plan
> initiative to which some of out dear friends got involved, under the UN
> framework promoting An idea of Commons Charters instead of Millennium
> Goals, which was scheduled to 2015. I again am not against involvement and
> engagement with the state to open, transform, and dissolve it from bottom
> to up, yet with giant capitalist partners like al gore, bill gates, bono,
> Soros, elite groups like club of Rome, club of Budapest, ... A child can
> guess where would the game end up! Do not want to judgmental but we have
> seen this movie many times, perfect ideas and hypotheses, communism itself
> may easily be spoiled. P2p and commons should be protected carefully...
> Orsan
>
>
>
> > On 18 Jul 2014, at 04:23, willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Am 7/17/2014 1:33 PM, schrieb Bernardo Gutiérrez:
> >> Estimado Willi
> >>
> >> Gracias por tu aporte. El idioma de la lista p2p-es es el español, por
> lo
> >> que no es buena idea "to bring this two language spaces together"
> >> imponiendo el inglés, como no lo es enviar el mismo mail a listas con
> >> diferentes idiomas. Tú mismo criticaste a los que escribían en inglés a
> las
> >> listas de FLOK. Lo correcto es enviarlo a diferentes listas, cada una
> con
> >> su idioma, o escribir en todos los idiomas para todas
> >>
> >> Un abrazo
> >> Bernardo
> >>
> >> Dear Willi
> >>
> >> Thanks for your comment. The commom language of p2p-es is Spanish, so I
> >> think it is not a good idea "to bring this two language spaces together"
> >> imposing English, as it is not a good practice to send the same mail
> with
> >> just one language to different lists. You were  critic with those who
> wrote
> >> in English in FLOK lists. The proper could be to send the message in
> >> different languages to different lists or to write in both languages and
> >> send the message
> >>
> >> Best
> >> Bernardo
> >
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > this is a very clear and correct position. I think, the writers write in
> > two languages, if they addressed the two language spaces. Normally it is
> > enough to use google translation between english and spanish to
> > understand. A good english we can translate and understand. A good
> > spanish also. (not for me, because my english is very bad).
> >
> > The other is our interest to distribute some texts from one language
> > space to the other. We need the support from this people, they speak
> > both languages.
> >
> > many greetings, willi
> >
> >
> > Querid at s amig at s,
> >
> > esta es una posición muy clara y correcta. Creo que, los escritores
> > escriben en dos idiomas, si se dirigían los dos espacios lingüísticos.
> > Normalmente es suficiente con utilizar traducción de Google entre Inglés
> > y español para entender. Un buen Inglés podemos traducir y entender. Un
> > buen español también. (no para mí, porque mi inglés es muy malo).
> >
> > El otro es nuestro interés para distribuir algunos de los textos de un
> > espacio idioma a otro. Necesitamos el apoyo de este pueblo, hablan los
> > dos idiomas.
> >
> > Muchas saludas, willi
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
>
>

-- 
*Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*

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