[P2P-F] membership of p2p-f discussion list

Sat Jul 19 05:34:09 CEST 2014

Dear Michel ans friends,

i am happy to read the confirmation to that, what i wrote before. But i 
have one objection.

"Please note that defamation is different from critiquing and discussing 
actions based on facts. For example, if I say that Bernardo has 
threathened me, that is a verifiable fact on the fb group where it 
happened, this is not defamation, but reacting to a concrete public action."

No. Never i use Facebook. And i don't need it. And i know, also Quiliro 
never use it. You wrote many things against Bernardo. But never i found 
a realy base for verification. So, it is not "verificable" for me/us. 
Maybe, Quiliro have more experince and based of that he can self define 
his position.

We see, that many things are overlapped in this time. So, we need to 
seperate. We move the needless things in the background and concentrate 
us to the important things.

many greetings, willi
Bogota, Colombia

Am 7/18/2014 2:46 AM, schrieb Michel Bauwens:
> dear friends,
>
> complaints seem to be going around that people have been either excluded or
> not accepted in the p2p-f list
>
> just to clarify, the list subscription is based on self-registration and
> everyone can join
>
> the list is moderated against overt personal attacks; this is the only
> thing we are normally firm on ... with personal attacks we mean direct
> attacks against the integrity of persons, especially with false
> accusations. When this happened in the past, it took weeks to take such
> final discussions, which to my knowledge, have only happened once or twice
> since 2006.
>
> As most of you know, in related lists, Bernardo Gutierrez openly threatened
> to publish private emails if I did not stop publishing independent
> evaluations of the flok experience; and I have had other private and more
> friendly emails from flok mgt associates asking me why I am spreading
> critical material. The answer is simple, we are pluralistic and have spread
> various perspectives for and against different p2p issues, since at least
> 2002. This is our right of free speech and we're not going to stop either
> by responding by self-censorhip to friendly requests, or outrights threats.
> In my 15 years of activity, this is the first time, and all related to
> flok, that my right to curate material has been challenged so
> systematically, and I consider it characterist of a mode of operation which
> I reject.
>
> This being said, until now, and for several years, no one has either been
> excluded or prevented from joining us, and this is very different from the
> practice on the flok lists which for good or bad reasons, have consciously
> excluded people.
>
> People on this list should just focus on their political arguments and
> refrain from personal attacks, especially from defamation and false
> accusations. If anyone does such thing, he will get a warning and a public
> discussion may ensue about the wisdom of taking measures, which are always
> a last resort.
>
> Please note that defamation is different from critiquing and discussing
> actions based on facts. For example, if I say that Bernardo has threathened
> me, that is a verifiable fact on the fb group where it happened, this is
> not defamation, but reacting to a concrete public action.
>
> To my knowledge, recently and for a very long time, no one has been
> consciously excluded nor prevented from joining. If you think this has
> happened, my guess is that this are technical issues that have to be
> discussed with the list moderator, who can help.
>
> I believe that person is Kevin, in cc. I have zero technical powers of
> exclusion of this list, drastic measures need to be discussed first
> publicly and then confirmed by the core contributors.
>
> As I have no technical skills sufficient to help you, please contact the
> list moderator in case of issues.
>
> Michel
>
>
>
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