[P2P-F] [Networkedlabour] open budget

Tue Jul 15 08:10:39 CEST 2014

ok, if you resend me the text you want to be clarified (you can do it
privately), I'll see what I can do,

Michel


On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:14 AM, peter waterman <peterwaterman1936 at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Michel:
>
> Thanx for posting this. I would not, however, want to post it further (or
> even see it further posted) since it would require considerable inside
> knowledge to make sense of it. I myself cannot do so, tho I do have some
> background knowledge of Ecuador and a sceptical posture towards the '21st
> century socialist', or whatever, process occurring there.
>
> So, I am wondering whether you would not be able to 'translate and
> improve'* your own account. That would mean making the information
> available to the wider community - even if this is taken only to be the
> NetLab and p2p lists.
>
> Best,
>
> P
>
> *this is the phrase on a poster advertising a performance in Yiddish of
> Shakespeare's 'Hamlet', in an isolated Jewish community of 19thC Poland. It
> was signed by the translator, Shmuel Cohen.
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Michel, many thanks for this detailed response.
>>
>> Actually my intention was posting on the networked labour list only
>> the personal or official reports coming from or about the FLOK project
>> which you led it's research part and concluded last month in Ecuador.
>>
>> As for the request you replied below, actually I meant to address the
>> impotence of adopting open or participatory budgeting practise in
>> general. Otherwise did not mean to question anybodies' integrity or
>> so. I believe, as you do, for building p2p or distributed ethical
>> economies figuratively, and for especially these kind of projects this
>> is an essential point.
>>
>> Besides, in my opinion, it may be useful for those who are on the
>> networked labour list so not very much aware of the exchanges going on
>> about the project process so on; so who were  not able to read the
>> whole email in which I made the request from you and others. If you
>> agree and find it useful or necessary to give a brief background
>> please feel free. So it is up to you.
>>
>> Thanks again,
>> Orsan
>>
>>
>> On 7 July 2014 06:43, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>> > Orsan, you write:
>> >
>> > <To avoid any negative impact for all the sides, I would humbly suggest,
>> > especially in terms of financial aspects, providing full transparency
>> (Flok,
>> > P2P-F, Cook Consultancy, Ecuadorean ministries so on). And without
>> > practicing a sort of participatory budgeting, IMHO, there will always be
>> > shadows of doubts and questions hanging on these kinds of
>> > state-capital-funded projects.>
>> >
>> > Orsan, the budget was highly secretive and tightly  controlled by the
>> flok
>> > mgt team; in fact, AD was removed (though they are claiming he removed
>> > himself, so I'm not sure), largely because he tried to get a regular and
>> > open budget done controlled by the institution. It was the key area of
>> > contention and why he has been called a spy.
>> >
>> > Here is my guesswork:
>> >
>> > * the project was tri-funded by the Min of Knowledge, the Senescyt
>> > innovation secretariat and the IAEN  institution
>> >
>> > * the entire process with wages may have reached $400k , with an
>> additional
>> > $300k plus for the summit
>> >
>> > The wage issue was highly contentious, from before I reached the
>> project.
>> > The rector wanted to pay intl' level wages to foreign researchers, and
>> this
>> > was not taken well by the locals. On the other hand, the institution
>> payed
>> > some people very well who never showed up, and trying to get rid of
>> them  is
>> > one of the causes that caused him the loss of his job. The ratio of
>> staff to
>> > students is incredibly skewed at the IAEN but I can't remember the
>> ratio,
>> > but much more staff than students.
>> >
>> > My understanding is that most of the research team got $4k and I got
>> $5.x as
>> > 'director'. There is no doubt that this is well paid, but it is still
>> less
>> > for a month than a private consulting gets for a day. So, if the FLOK
>> is a
>> > genuine transition project, that was not outside of decency. There is a
>> lot
>> > of discussion about the other salaries, which are shrouded in secrecy.
>> One
>> > of the most often expressed critiques directed at me and the research
>> team:
>> > how can you guys make so much noise when you are paid so well, 'aren't
>> you
>> > ashamed'; on the other hand, 'flok mgt works tirelessly for nearly
>> nothing'.
>> > This is the mythology, used again and again, but I'm not sure it is the
>> > truth; from very good accounting sources, I was informed that they
>> earned
>> > four times their claims, but I can't prove this. But as I've learned
>> not to
>> > trust anything said coming from the flok mgt, I tend to give credence
>> to my
>> > source.
>> >
>> > As for me,  yes, I was well paid, after living under the minimum wage
>> for
>> > seven years. We had to pay our own tickets, rent and rent guarantees,
>> all
>> > internal job-related travels, and because of the length of the
>> engagement, I
>> > had to bring my family for two months (this was a stated condition of my
>> > employment, even if I had to finance it myself). Because of the
>> structurally
>> > late payments, I had to pay 40% more for these tickets, and on average,
>> > since we all had to take loans, 20% interest fees. So, just to say,
>> despite
>> > appearances, none of us got rich from this, and we worked tirelessly, in
>> > very tough circumstances, 12 to 14 hours a day, including many weekend
>> days.
>> > So, we are  certainly not victims, privileged for sure, but not getting
>> rich
>> > on this assignment either. Neither of us asked for anything, we
>> accepted an
>> > invitation with its conditions, so I think the whole wage controversy is
>> > really a side issue.
>> >
>> > I'm not suggesting any budget malfeasance, the opacity of the budget was
>> > exclusively an issue of political control. You should also take into
>> account
>> > that due to the structural non-payment, the flok mgt had to make
>> superhuman
>> > efforts for the project to merely survive. Two full-time staff were
>> engaged
>> > just to speed up our payments (they achieved a 6 week average delay due
>> to
>> > superhuman efforfts): I was told, but can't verify this, that 26
>> signatures
>> > were needed each month for each wage, a sign of terrible bureaucracy.
>> (while
>> > I critique the hierarchical aspects of the mgt process we should not
>> forget
>> > the extreme structural stress they were facing day in day out).
>> >
>> > Also, apart from the real work, we were forced to produce partly
>> fictitious
>> > 'products', taking 2-3 working days to produce, as proof of our work.
>> These
>> > had to be delivered 10 days before the end of each month, hence having
>> a 10
>> > day 'future narrative' included. You have no idea of the level of
>> > dysfunctional bureaucracy that was prevalent. This is not exclusively a
>> flok
>> > and IAEN problem, as the young and mosty precarious Prometheo
>> researchers
>> > also are routinely not paid for the first four months of their work.
>> Unless
>> > you have strong reserves to withstand such delays, I would not
>> recommend any
>> > foreigner to work as a scholar in Ecuador for the moment. But if you
>> have
>> > reserves and go for the experience and engagement with local people,
>> it's
>> > worthwhile, it's a spectacular place. The structural situation in
>> Ecuador is
>> > that most of the education funding goes to Yachai, a rather terrible
>> > neoliberal experiment in a green desert, signing secret deals with
>> > Microsoft, etc ..  There is really nothing there, and won't be, for a
>> very
>> > long time. While the existing universities are being underfunded, this
>> > artificial place, which will be structurally incapable of atracting the
>> > creative class (even richard florida thinks it's a terrible idea), is
>> > getting all the attention and funding. It's a little bit like the
>> anti-FLOK
>> > project, though funded by the same Ministry, one of the many
>> contradictions
>> > of the project and the political situation in Ecuador. Just as it was
>> > impossible to find a single civic mvt with a positive view of the
>> government
>> > (at least amongst the 70 we spoke with); it was equally impossible to
>> find a
>> > single university administrator or scholar that supported the current
>> > education policy. It's part of the divorce between the intellectual
>> class
>> > and the government that I discussed earlier,
>> >
>> > Michel
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
>> record
>> > of previous communication, proposals, etc ..
>> >
>> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>> >
>> > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>> >
>> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > NetworkedLabour mailing list
>> > NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> NetworkedLabour mailing list
>> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
>> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>    1. *EBook, November 2012: Recovering Internationalism
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/>.  [A
>    compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download
>    formats] <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/>
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/>*
>    2.
> *EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: Critical
>    Explorations http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/> *
>    3. *Interface Journal Special (co-editor), November 2012: For the
>    Global Emancipation of Labour <http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/>*
>    4. *Blog: http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.
>    <http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.> *
>    5. *Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor) Social Movement
>    Internationalisms. See Call for Papers <http://www.interfacejournal.net/>,
>    (Deadline: May 1, 2014). *
>    6.
> *Needed: a Global Labour Charter Movement (2005-Now!)
>    <http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf>*
>    7. *Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront a
>    Globalised, Informatised Capitalism
>    <http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/>(2011) Almost 1,000
>    pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's.*
>    8. *Google Scholar Citation Index:*
>     *http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ
>    <http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ> *
>
>
>    -
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> NetworkedLabour mailing list
> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>
>


-- 
*Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20140715/84277c16/attachment-0001.htm