<div dir="ltr">ok, if you resend me the text you want to be clarified (you can do it privately), I'll see what I can do,<div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 1:14 AM, peter waterman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:peterwaterman1936@gmail.com" target="_blank">peterwaterman1936@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Michel:<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">
Thanx for posting this. I would not, however, want to post it further (or even see it further posted) since it would require considerable inside knowledge to make sense of it. I myself cannot do so, tho I do have some background knowledge of Ecuador and a sceptical posture towards the '21st century socialist', or whatever, process occurring there.<br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">So, I am wondering whether you would not be able to 'translate and improve'* your own account. That would mean making the information available to the wider community - even if this is taken only to be the NetLab and p2p lists. <br>
<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">Best,<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">P<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">*this is the phrase on a poster advertising a performance in Yiddish of Shakespeare's 'Hamlet', in an isolated Jewish community of 19thC Poland. It was signed by the translator, Shmuel Cohen.<br>
</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 11:24 AM, Örsan Şenalp <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:orsan1234@gmail.com" target="_blank">orsan1234@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Michel, many thanks for this detailed response.<br>
<br>
Actually my intention was posting on the networked labour list only<br>
the personal or official reports coming from or about the FLOK project<br>
which you led it's research part and concluded last month in Ecuador.<br>
<br>
As for the request you replied below, actually I meant to address the<br>
impotence of adopting open or participatory budgeting practise in<br>
general. Otherwise did not mean to question anybodies' integrity or<br>
so. I believe, as you do, for building p2p or distributed ethical<br>
economies figuratively, and for especially these kind of projects this<br>
is an essential point.<br>
<br>
Besides, in my opinion, it may be useful for those who are on the<br>
networked labour list so not very much aware of the exchanges going on<br>
about the project process so on; so who were not able to read the<br>
whole email in which I made the request from you and others. If you<br>
agree and find it useful or necessary to give a brief background<br>
please feel free. So it is up to you.<br>
<br>
Thanks again,<br>
Orsan<br>
<br>
<br>
On 7 July 2014 06:43, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Orsan, you write:<br>
><br>
> <To avoid any negative impact for all the sides, I would humbly suggest,<br>
> especially in terms of financial aspects, providing full transparency (Flok,<br>
> P2P-F, Cook Consultancy, Ecuadorean ministries so on). And without<br>
> practicing a sort of participatory budgeting, IMHO, there will always be<br>
> shadows of doubts and questions hanging on these kinds of<br>
> state-capital-funded projects.><br>
><br>
> Orsan, the budget was highly secretive and tightly controlled by the flok<br>
> mgt team; in fact, AD was removed (though they are claiming he removed<br>
> himself, so I'm not sure), largely because he tried to get a regular and<br>
> open budget done controlled by the institution. It was the key area of<br>
> contention and why he has been called a spy.<br>
><br>
> Here is my guesswork:<br>
><br>
> * the project was tri-funded by the Min of Knowledge, the Senescyt<br>
> innovation secretariat and the IAEN institution<br>
><br>
> * the entire process with wages may have reached $400k , with an additional<br>
> $300k plus for the summit<br>
><br>
> The wage issue was highly contentious, from before I reached the project.<br>
> The rector wanted to pay intl' level wages to foreign researchers, and this<br>
> was not taken well by the locals. On the other hand, the institution payed<br>
> some people very well who never showed up, and trying to get rid of them is<br>
> one of the causes that caused him the loss of his job. The ratio of staff to<br>
> students is incredibly skewed at the IAEN but I can't remember the ratio,<br>
> but much more staff than students.<br>
><br>
> My understanding is that most of the research team got $4k and I got $5.x as<br>
> 'director'. There is no doubt that this is well paid, but it is still less<br>
> for a month than a private consulting gets for a day. So, if the FLOK is a<br>
> genuine transition project, that was not outside of decency. There is a lot<br>
> of discussion about the other salaries, which are shrouded in secrecy. One<br>
> of the most often expressed critiques directed at me and the research team:<br>
> how can you guys make so much noise when you are paid so well, 'aren't you<br>
> ashamed'; on the other hand, 'flok mgt works tirelessly for nearly nothing'.<br>
> This is the mythology, used again and again, but I'm not sure it is the<br>
> truth; from very good accounting sources, I was informed that they earned<br>
> four times their claims, but I can't prove this. But as I've learned not to<br>
> trust anything said coming from the flok mgt, I tend to give credence to my<br>
> source.<br>
><br>
> As for me, yes, I was well paid, after living under the minimum wage for<br>
> seven years. We had to pay our own tickets, rent and rent guarantees, all<br>
> internal job-related travels, and because of the length of the engagement, I<br>
> had to bring my family for two months (this was a stated condition of my<br>
> employment, even if I had to finance it myself). Because of the structurally<br>
> late payments, I had to pay 40% more for these tickets, and on average,<br>
> since we all had to take loans, 20% interest fees. So, just to say, despite<br>
> appearances, none of us got rich from this, and we worked tirelessly, in<br>
> very tough circumstances, 12 to 14 hours a day, including many weekend days.<br>
> So, we are certainly not victims, privileged for sure, but not getting rich<br>
> on this assignment either. Neither of us asked for anything, we accepted an<br>
> invitation with its conditions, so I think the whole wage controversy is<br>
> really a side issue.<br>
><br>
> I'm not suggesting any budget malfeasance, the opacity of the budget was<br>
> exclusively an issue of political control. You should also take into account<br>
> that due to the structural non-payment, the flok mgt had to make superhuman<br>
> efforts for the project to merely survive. Two full-time staff were engaged<br>
> just to speed up our payments (they achieved a 6 week average delay due to<br>
> superhuman efforfts): I was told, but can't verify this, that 26 signatures<br>
> were needed each month for each wage, a sign of terrible bureaucracy. (while<br>
> I critique the hierarchical aspects of the mgt process we should not forget<br>
> the extreme structural stress they were facing day in day out).<br>
><br>
> Also, apart from the real work, we were forced to produce partly fictitious<br>
> 'products', taking 2-3 working days to produce, as proof of our work. These<br>
> had to be delivered 10 days before the end of each month, hence having a 10<br>
> day 'future narrative' included. You have no idea of the level of<br>
> dysfunctional bureaucracy that was prevalent. This is not exclusively a flok<br>
> and IAEN problem, as the young and mosty precarious Prometheo researchers<br>
> also are routinely not paid for the first four months of their work. Unless<br>
> you have strong reserves to withstand such delays, I would not recommend any<br>
> foreigner to work as a scholar in Ecuador for the moment. But if you have<br>
> reserves and go for the experience and engagement with local people, it's<br>
> worthwhile, it's a spectacular place. The structural situation in Ecuador is<br>
> that most of the education funding goes to Yachai, a rather terrible<br>
> neoliberal experiment in a green desert, signing secret deals with<br>
> Microsoft, etc .. There is really nothing there, and won't be, for a very<br>
> long time. While the existing universities are being underfunded, this<br>
> artificial place, which will be structurally incapable of atracting the<br>
> creative class (even richard florida thinks it's a terrible idea), is<br>
> getting all the attention and funding. It's a little bit like the anti-FLOK<br>
> project, though funded by the same Ministry, one of the many contradictions<br>
> of the project and the political situation in Ecuador. Just as it was<br>
> impossible to find a single civic mvt with a positive view of the government<br>
> (at least amongst the 70 we spoke with); it was equally impossible to find a<br>
> single university administrator or scholar that supported the current<br>
> education policy. It's part of the divorce between the intellectual class<br>
> and the government that I discussed earlier,<br>
><br>
> Michel<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record<br>
> of previous communication, proposals, etc ..<br>
><br>
> P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><br>
><br>
> Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">-- <br><div dir="ltr"><ol><li><b><font><span></span><font size="1"><span><span>EBook, November 2012:</span> <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/recovering_internationalism/" target="_blank">Recovering
Internationalism</a>. </span><span><font color="#ff0000">[A compilation of papers from the new millenium. Now free in two download formats]</font></span><span><span><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank"></span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span></a></span></span><span><span><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank"></span></span><span style="background-color:rgb(255,0,0)"><span></a></span></span></font></font></b></li>
<li><b><font size="1"><span><span>EBook (co-editor), February 2013: World Social Forum: Critical Explorations <a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/" target="_blank"></font>http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/world_social_forum/<font color="#ff0000"> </a></span></span><span><span><br>
</span></span></font></b></li><li><b><font size="1"><span>Interface
Journal<span> Special (co-editor), November 2012:</span> </span><span style="font-weight:normal"><a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/current/" target="_blank">For the Global Emancipation of Labour</a></span></font></b>
</li><li><b><font size="1"><span lang="NL">Blog:</span><span lang="NL"> <a href="http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman." target="_blank">http://www.unionbook.org/profile/peterwaterman.</a>
</span></font></b></li><li><b><font size="1">Interface Journal Special (Co-Editor) Social Movement Internationalisms. <a href="http://www.interfacejournal.net/" target="_blank">See Call for Papers</a>, <font color="#ff0000">(Deadline: May 1, 2014). </font></font></b></li>
<li><b><font size="1"><font color="#ff0000"><a href="http://interfacejournal.nuim.ie/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/Interface-1-2-pp255-262-Waterman.pdf" target="_blank"></font></font></span></font><font color="#000000">Needed: a Global Labour Charter Movement<span style="color:rgb(255,0,0)"><font color="#000000"> <font color="#ff0000">(2005-Now!)<br>
</a></font></font></b></li><li><b><font size="1"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000"><a href="http://www.into-ebooks.com/book/under-against-beyond/" target="_blank"><font color="red"><b>MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "www.into-ebooks.com" claiming to be</b></font> Under, Against, Beyond: Labour and Social Movements Confront a Globalised, Informatised Capitalism </a>(2011) <font color="#ff0000">Almost 1,000 pages of Working Papers, free, from the 1980's-90's</font>.</font></font></font></b></li>
<li><b><font size="1"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#000000">Google Scholar Citation Index:</font></font></font></b><br><span style="display:block"> <b><font size="1"><a href="http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ" target="_blank">http://scholar.google.com.pe/citations?user=e0e6Qa4AAAAJ</a> </font></b><br>
</span></li></ol><ul><li><table cellpadding="0"><tbody><tr></tr></tbody></table></li></ul><font size="1">
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><b>Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..</b></div><div>
<br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
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