[P2P-F] [Networkedlabour] open budget

Mon Jul 14 11:40:43 CEST 2014

hi orsan,

I can't really see what more background I can give than the rather detailed
reply I give (oversharing as I know see it <g>)

Michel

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Örsan Şenalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Michel, many thanks for this detailed response.
>
> Actually my intention was posting on the networked labour list only
> the personal or official reports coming from or about the FLOK project
> which you led it's research part and concluded last month in Ecuador.
>
> As for the request you replied below, actually I meant to address the
> impotence of adopting open or participatory budgeting practise in
> general. Otherwise did not mean to question anybodies' integrity or
> so. I believe, as you do, for building p2p or distributed ethical
> economies figuratively, and for especially these kind of projects this
> is an essential point.
>
> Besides, in my opinion, it may be useful for those who are on the
> networked labour list so not very much aware of the exchanges going on
> about the project process so on; so who were  not able to read the
> whole email in which I made the request from you and others. If you
> agree and find it useful or necessary to give a brief background
> please feel free. So it is up to you.
>
> Thanks again,
> Orsan
>
>
> On 7 July 2014 06:43, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> > Orsan, you write:
> >
> > <To avoid any negative impact for all the sides, I would humbly suggest,
> > especially in terms of financial aspects, providing full transparency
> (Flok,
> > P2P-F, Cook Consultancy, Ecuadorean ministries so on). And without
> > practicing a sort of participatory budgeting, IMHO, there will always be
> > shadows of doubts and questions hanging on these kinds of
> > state-capital-funded projects.>
> >
> > Orsan, the budget was highly secretive and tightly  controlled by the
> flok
> > mgt team; in fact, AD was removed (though they are claiming he removed
> > himself, so I'm not sure), largely because he tried to get a regular and
> > open budget done controlled by the institution. It was the key area of
> > contention and why he has been called a spy.
> >
> > Here is my guesswork:
> >
> > * the project was tri-funded by the Min of Knowledge, the Senescyt
> > innovation secretariat and the IAEN  institution
> >
> > * the entire process with wages may have reached $400k , with an
> additional
> > $300k plus for the summit
> >
> > The wage issue was highly contentious, from before I reached the project.
> > The rector wanted to pay intl' level wages to foreign researchers, and
> this
> > was not taken well by the locals. On the other hand, the institution
> payed
> > some people very well who never showed up, and trying to get rid of them
>  is
> > one of the causes that caused him the loss of his job. The ratio of
> staff to
> > students is incredibly skewed at the IAEN but I can't remember the ratio,
> > but much more staff than students.
> >
> > My understanding is that most of the research team got $4k and I got
> $5.x as
> > 'director'. There is no doubt that this is well paid, but it is still
> less
> > for a month than a private consulting gets for a day. So, if the FLOK is
> a
> > genuine transition project, that was not outside of decency. There is a
> lot
> > of discussion about the other salaries, which are shrouded in secrecy.
> One
> > of the most often expressed critiques directed at me and the research
> team:
> > how can you guys make so much noise when you are paid so well, 'aren't
> you
> > ashamed'; on the other hand, 'flok mgt works tirelessly for nearly
> nothing'.
> > This is the mythology, used again and again, but I'm not sure it is the
> > truth; from very good accounting sources, I was informed that they earned
> > four times their claims, but I can't prove this. But as I've learned not
> to
> > trust anything said coming from the flok mgt, I tend to give credence to
> my
> > source.
> >
> > As for me,  yes, I was well paid, after living under the minimum wage for
> > seven years. We had to pay our own tickets, rent and rent guarantees, all
> > internal job-related travels, and because of the length of the
> engagement, I
> > had to bring my family for two months (this was a stated condition of my
> > employment, even if I had to finance it myself). Because of the
> structurally
> > late payments, I had to pay 40% more for these tickets, and on average,
> > since we all had to take loans, 20% interest fees. So, just to say,
> despite
> > appearances, none of us got rich from this, and we worked tirelessly, in
> > very tough circumstances, 12 to 14 hours a day, including many weekend
> days.
> > So, we are  certainly not victims, privileged for sure, but not getting
> rich
> > on this assignment either. Neither of us asked for anything, we accepted
> an
> > invitation with its conditions, so I think the whole wage controversy is
> > really a side issue.
> >
> > I'm not suggesting any budget malfeasance, the opacity of the budget was
> > exclusively an issue of political control. You should also take into
> account
> > that due to the structural non-payment, the flok mgt had to make
> superhuman
> > efforts for the project to merely survive. Two full-time staff were
> engaged
> > just to speed up our payments (they achieved a 6 week average delay due
> to
> > superhuman efforfts): I was told, but can't verify this, that 26
> signatures
> > were needed each month for each wage, a sign of terrible bureaucracy.
> (while
> > I critique the hierarchical aspects of the mgt process we should not
> forget
> > the extreme structural stress they were facing day in day out).
> >
> > Also, apart from the real work, we were forced to produce partly
> fictitious
> > 'products', taking 2-3 working days to produce, as proof of our work.
> These
> > had to be delivered 10 days before the end of each month, hence having a
> 10
> > day 'future narrative' included. You have no idea of the level of
> > dysfunctional bureaucracy that was prevalent. This is not exclusively a
> flok
> > and IAEN problem, as the young and mosty precarious Prometheo researchers
> > also are routinely not paid for the first four months of their work.
> Unless
> > you have strong reserves to withstand such delays, I would not recommend
> any
> > foreigner to work as a scholar in Ecuador for the moment. But if you have
> > reserves and go for the experience and engagement with local people, it's
> > worthwhile, it's a spectacular place. The structural situation in
> Ecuador is
> > that most of the education funding goes to Yachai, a rather terrible
> > neoliberal experiment in a green desert, signing secret deals with
> > Microsoft, etc ..  There is really nothing there, and won't be, for a
> very
> > long time. While the existing universities are being underfunded, this
> > artificial place, which will be structurally incapable of atracting the
> > creative class (even richard florida thinks it's a terrible idea), is
> > getting all the attention and funding. It's a little bit like the
> anti-FLOK
> > project, though funded by the same Ministry, one of the many
> contradictions
> > of the project and the political situation in Ecuador. Just as it was
> > impossible to find a single civic mvt with a positive view of the
> government
> > (at least amongst the 70 we spoke with); it was equally impossible to
> find a
> > single university administrator or scholar that supported the current
> > education policy. It's part of the divorce between the intellectual class
> > and the government that I discussed earlier,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> >
> > --
> > Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
> record
> > of previous communication, proposals, etc ..
> >
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > NetworkedLabour mailing list
> > NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
> > http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
> >
> _______________________________________________
> NetworkedLabour mailing list
> NetworkedLabour at lists.contrast.org
> http://lists.contrast.org/mailman/listinfo/networkedlabour
>

-- 
*Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no
record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..*

P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

#82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20140714/585bf3f1/attachment.htm 