[P2P-F] an evaluation of the flok

Sun Jul 6 22:32:24 CEST 2014

My dear Orsan,

we generally speak about our future. And like in all areas, if we want 
to do anything, we have to think about and to discuss. This is not an 
academic space.

Think about our direct personally communication. We act as client and 
server always in the same time. The difference is only, that we 
communicate in the technical media over bigger geografical distances.

In the center we have the needs of the people. Her interest for 
communication. And if the don't like it, they never create her local 
network and never any connection to her neighborhoods.

Our base are the local networks. This are full functionally. They have 
all components what they need. But in general we break the seperation 
client/server. Only this people, they don't like to work on a 
server/client system, they can use the local server for her needs.

This means, that we create full symetric transport capacities. The both 
direction, up and down, have in principal the same capacity (or 
bandwith). This we do, because the most stable structure we have if all 
the communication partners can act as client and server.

Depend on the distributed structure, our principles, the local people 
have the responsibility to organize her local network self. We help, of 
course, we cooperate. But the decisions create always the local people.

On this way we are confronted with the requirements for the design, 
construction and build our components to create our communication 
system. And this also, we do it together. But in a bigger area. And the 
local communities can act as regional groups, if they want.

The only thing for our packet transport system is to define the IP 
header with our way to define the geografical based global IP adress. 
The local part is totally local defined.

You see, that with the geografical definition of the global adress part 
in the IP adress all is very easy. For that, on the beginning, we look 
for a world coordinate system with a symetrical resolution. No more. And 
if we don't find a good way, we can use first the WC84 system. With 64 
bits for the global adress part our resolution is more then necssary.

You wrote:
"What about what happens when two local horizontal networks started to 
connect and interact? (like two different type of galaxies are clashing 
and then merging). it is kind of essential to be able to get a clear 
analysis on this, to see how will network movements will get on the same 
page, like local Gezi, Occupy, hacker,15m, networks and how they will 
encounter the netarchical ruling classes globally, while latter holding 
on the capitalist states and operating through transnational capitalist 
class networks and forging conscious counter and filtrating attacks on 
the emerging new reality."

Oh my dear Orsan, i never go in the cinema and never i look TV. So, i 
live in the reality. And in the reality, the movements are slow, because 
they have clear physical bases.

In principal, the stability grows up with the distribution of 
self-organized systems. This we can always say and see. Following of 
that, we are on the right way if we decentralize all our systems and 
help the local people to extend her capacity. Based on this we create 
our networks (the packet transport system) over the world for our 
different task.

many greetings, willi
Medellin, Colombia

Am 06/07/2014 11:26, schrieb Orsan:
> thanks Willi, I appreciate your response, though see a major problem with serious results of not thinking of we having this or being part of concrete real world, we are trying to transcend.
>
>
>> On 6 jul. 2014, at 16:57, willi uebelherr <willi.uebelherr at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Am 06/07/2014 08:24, schrieb Orsan:
>>> ...
>> "I think the conscious act of transforming network into meshwork (read
>> p2p distributed) by creating all possibilities for all the noses to link
>> up each other, as will as the core information related to that network
>> (this I got form michel's 2005 seminal article on p2p), as well as
>> spaces, and channels that would generate more interlocking nodes between
>> many meshwork (acting kind of as the fellowship of the ring) is emerging
>> as the new ethics and politics in the network movements. The direction
>> taken is clearly towards the creation of a big global meshwork. Unity
>> and convergence makes a new sense in this new paradigmatic multi layer
>> matrix, from inner to individual, to inter personal and community
>> levels, recognising the simultaneous situations of autonomy and oneness
>> in any given time and space location."
>>
>> Dear Orsan,
>>
>> you start correct. mesh network as a P2P distributed network. But then
>> you lost the way.
>>
>> "Unity and convergence makes a new sense in this new paradigmatic multi
>> layer matrix, ...". This is a very different thing. In our horizontally
>> distributed network, based on the full connection of the elements, we
>> have no "layer matrix", because this is a concept of vertical
>> hierarchical systems.
>>
>
> May be in an ideally or analytically, but in the current situation there are these layers and the matrix they form. If there is a space where some people already transcended those layers and got out of the matrix, we should all go there. So what I tried to identify ontologically here is a transitory phenomenon.
>
>> We have to be clear in the using of our terms. Based on this principles
>> i wrote my proposals for NetMundial and www.1net.org. In the archive of
>> this list i found this mails.
>
> Agree, and above not thought through terms can be misleading, so I will read your proposal and try to see especially those technical solutions which can enable to address problems Arises from historically, materially and dialectically constructed human-relational problems. Which are also in transition and still have those layers needs to be overcome, from cellular to social, and cosmological.
>
>> The basic step for that is the strong horizontal structure based on the
>> local independent networks with her geografical position as the IP
>> adress. This is the more technical view. But we have to be clear:
>> without the technical definition based on our philosophical principles
>> we never come to our P2P distributed network.
>>
> Kind of agree, but technical solution without consciousness and awareness of the social relationships being applied to, and when those technical solutions applied to social relationships are dialectically inter-connected, or integral to each other.
>
>> Our communication system, The InterNet, "the Inter-connection of local
>> Net-works", is only oriented to the IP packet transport. All others can
>> the people define self. The coding and decoding, the streaming process,
>> the encryption. We transport the IP packet neutral. Only the physical
>> difference, asynchron or synchron, we use.
>>
>> This is a totally flat distributed system and this also means the term
>> P2P. Following of this clear princip we never can use any hierarchical
>> methods in our basic network. Over that, on the application level, the
>> people can do what the want. But this is a virtual layer and his
>> definition depend of the people self.
>
> What about what happens when two local horizontal networks started to connect and interact? (like two different type of galaxies are clashing and then merging). it is kind of essential to be able to get a clear analysis on this, to see how will network movements will get on the same page, like local Gezi, Occupy, hacker,15m, networks and how they will encounter the netarchical ruling classes globally, while latter holding on the capitalist states and operating through transnational capitalist class networks and forging conscious counter and filtrating attacks on the emerging new reality.
>
>> many greetings, willi
>> now: Medellin, Colombia
>>
>
> greetings, orsan