[P2P-F] an evaluation of the flok

Sun Jul 6 05:05:42 CEST 2014

Could be 
and perhaps in the town with michel's favorite mayor, it could make a difference.  But judging by the people i spoke with there  the cynicism towards correa is complete as well it should be.

I would have appreciated knowing that originators of FLOK were all spaniards - and yet qe were supposed to assume that the ecuadoran government right up to the president himself stood four square behind spaniards rather than its own citizens?

I appreciate Michel's candor and am certain that he is a man of his beliefs.  BUT it turns out that he did virtually no due diligence on the background of his ecuadoran employers or on Correa's presidential policies.  Ha he done so he would have found out that the rector of IAEN had called the brother of Rennee ramirez a liar in a radio broadcast on sept 9 and that this fact was reported in the quito press on sept 11.  Carlos had budgetary authority - at lest Daniel Vasquez said he did but Senescyt, Ramizez's ministry was also a funder or sponsor of Michel's work.  When they arrived in quito on about november  10, it probably should not have been surprising that no paperwork financial or other wise was in order.

While michel is preparing his report, anyone wishing to read mine may  hit this URL

http://www.cookreport.com/pdfs/July-augCRecuadorfinal.pdf

hidden i.e. not advertised on my web site.

I have said it before and will say so again.  I figured Michel had done due diligence and if he said this stuff was real, well then it was real.  I understand how when D vasquez emailed him last august 8 with the invitation to come to quito it was like manna from heaven or the kid in the candy store.  I likely would have reacted in the same way.  I do regret that during the 6 weeks in which he was delaying looking at my policy paper because Vasquez was telling him i was a cia agent he never cited this as the reason for his delay.  He did not have a look until the last week in april.  And twice in utter frustration i emailed him that i wanted to quit.  He urged me not to.  So i stuck with it until vasquez lied about my promised ticket and tried to threaten me,

I remain fully supportive of what p2p foundation is all about but i simply don't see what there is to be gained by trying to salvage anything from the truly bizarre and disgraceful effort of the flok.  Lessons learned?  yes. but if NSA and its ILK had wanted  a huge psyops operation to make our ideas look foolish, they could not have hoped for better than what the spaniards served up to them

On Jul 5, 2014, at 9:59 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that the research papers of the flok project can become part of a political movement of the commons in Equador. 
> Even revolutionaries engage in movements that request from the government to pass some laws.
> 
> 
> 2014-07-06 2:23 GMT+03:00 Kevin Carson <free.market.anticapitalist at gmail.com>:
> I think this is a good general observation on the likely result of
> most successor economy projects carried out in cooperation with state
> agencies: the most important outcome will be the horizontal functional
> connections (including with state personnel working within the belly
> of the beat) that persist after the state itself decays.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 4, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> > Here is a nice ecuadorian and in my view balanced evaluation of the flok,
> >
> > in order to avoid inflaming, I removed the name of the author and most of
> > the persons cited
> >
> > Since I have been repeatedly threatened and intimidated in an attempt to
> > avoid any independent political evaluation of the flok, I don't see any
> > point in continuing to be careful about some of its unfortunately realities:
> >
> > from an ecuadorian person who participated in the flok process
> >
> > <<
> >
> > It's sad but the failure of something like FLOK is just another part of
> > life. Big picture, what mattered in Ecuador was introducing revolutionary
> > ideas to the population, and I think the way your team decided to carry out
> > research did impact many key people and foment important connections
> > in-country. What mattered for the P2P movement worldwide is learning from
> > failures, and you're more in tune with how that is going to move forward.
> > The case of Bernardo is very sad ... the case of Daniel V. somewhat sadder.
> >
> > I do understand Ecuador much more than Bernardo or Daniel V. do, and I can
> > predict what FLOK is going to mean in the political landscape: the word FLOK
> > will eventually mean nothing. The papers it produced will mean nothing. What
> > will last will be the connections between people that it left behind. This
> > is why it saddens me that within the category of the people who met via
> > FLOK, some of them don't see the value of the others, and the strength that
> > the organism that coalesced in Quito could have. I'm sorry that they're
> > treating you the way they are. It's despicable. I think that people that
> > know you will see through the vitriol and judge you for your actions rather
> > than the words of others.
> >
> >  I don't think "FLOK" as it was imagined in Ecuador can be rescued. I think
> > if there's a power struggle over the idea or the papers produced at the
> > summit, that will just sink it faster. My opinion (and keep in mind that I
> > don't know much about what happened at the summit) is that you would benefit
> > from even more distance between yourself and Daniel V's project, that you
> > should continue to be open to the public and continue to process the "whys"
> > of your split and critique of the project, but move on without the label
> > "FLOK" on what you do. There's a measure of pride and ownership in not
> > wanting something that you loved, i.e. the idea of FLOK, to be completely
> > taken over by people whose ideas you hate, but that's how open source stuff
> > works, I suppose :) I don't think the way Daniel V. and co. do things is
> > going to conquer Ecuador. Actually, I'm positive that he will continue to
> > fail. Ecuadorians are not fond of being ruled by centralized power,
> > especially not from abroad. He's successful when he operates in the shadows
> > and when he uses Ecuadorians like Andres or Isabel as puppets to speak to
> > the locals, and foreigners with more cache, like yourself, to speak to the
> > international community. On his own, operating in Ecuador, he's pretty
> > harmless. And since he continually alienates people, I think he'll always
> > end up alone.
> >
> > So, take heart, I suppose? "
> >
> > --
> > Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record
> > of previous communication, proposals, etc ..
> >
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> > #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Kevin Carson
> Senior Fellow, Karl Hess Scholar in Social Theory
> Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> 
> "You have no authority that we are bound to respect" -- John Perry Barlow
> "We are legion. We never forgive. We never forget. Expect us" -- Anonymous
> 
> Homebrew Industrial Revolution:  A Low-Overhead Manifesto
> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com
> Desktop Regulatory State http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Sincerely yours, 
>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
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