[P2P-F] [commoning] The Co-operative University (Hoeschele, Wolfgang) (Hoeschele, Wolfgang)

Wed Jan 1 12:17:59 CET 2014

Hi Michel , ( cc: p2pf list - this post coming initially from commoning
list )

I did not mean that families need be the basis of some ideal institutional
arrangement.

There are, as far as I understand, various cultural models regarding
families ( including old matriarchal models, such as the Mosuo ) , and they
themselves seem to be evolving over time.

Hence me bringing forward "culture" vs "institutions" in my last post,
and "image" vs potentially experienced realities.

By the way - a classic ? - :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaHMgToJIjA

*Debord traces the development of a modern society in which
authentic social life
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpersonal_relationship> has been replaced
with its representation: "All that once was directly lived has become mere
representation."[1]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle#cite_note-Thesis1-1>
Debord
argues that the history of social life can be understood as "the decline of
being into having, and having into merely appearing."[2]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Society_of_the_Spectacle#cite_note-2>  *

Yet when looking closer at the ( wikipedia ) definitions,
I sense that we could twist my initial understanding of the word
"institution" and talk about "distributed institutions".

Initially I made the interpretation of institution as being a centralizing
hierarchical structure.   I guess we can have authoritarian cultures, and
self organizing cultures, too.

Cultures of self organization exist.  From my understanding, a struggle
between centralizing institutions, and self organizing cultures, has been
existing for some time already...

( if other people on this list want to bring up references, feel free to do
so - I do not want to enter the historical debate right now.  I guess the
Spanish civil war may be one case scenario ? )

Imho, here is an ideological choice to be made, as for what paradigm one
wants to support.

Michel, are you supporting a distributed paradigm, and eventually using
"the partner state" to support such distributed paradigm ?

With commons, imho, being a tool that enables such distributed paradigm...
( vs imposed dependencies using artificial scarcity to maintain specific
control )

I can understand how one would want to use resources currently available
through a "State" power arrangement, especially if one has access to it, to
support distributed and commons approaches.   Now the question I have, also
based on another recent thread on Michel's fb (
https://www.facebook.com/mbauwens/posts/10153639014410548 ) , is :

do Michel, and other people on this "commoning" list ( and p2pfoundation
list, which I add in cc )

still actively support or *believe in supporting a reduction on centralized
dependencies , co-creating towards more viable distributed approaches*,
even if both co-exist ?

Or did some people on these list, since I started interacting with some of
you over the last years, give up on such vision ?

also see comparative table on : http://p2pfoundation.net/Festivalism

I do not believe we need to remain within status quo ...
I also believe in us being co-creative agents ...

On Wed, Jan 1, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>wrote:

> I have my doubts that family and friends can substitute for institutional
> arrangements,
>
> the workers had friends and families, but that wasn't enough, they created
> voluntary fraternal organisations, unions, parties, mutualities, coops and
> the rest (which is the necessary work I'm alluding to)
>
> but even that wasn't enough, as volunary association only reached a small
> fraction of the workers, which is why they fought for universal policies,
> which gave us the welfare state
>
> this may not be the model for the today (though I think the partner state
> is post-welfare, i.e. it builds on it), but temporary assemblies based on
> consensus won't make the grade either ..
>
> Michel
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Michel
>>
>> my feeling is that you mistake image and reality in this last reply of
>> yours.
>>
>> when movements are not visible, it does not mean they are not present, or
>> active.
>>
>> as you and many of us may know and experience, much of the economy is
>> supported by non recognized, "invisible" contributions,
>> such as the role of family and friends supporting each other.
>>
>> From my point of perspective, it is important to understand cultural
>> shifts, rather then visible organizations.   Actually, we can move away
>> from seeing it with organizations all-together,
>> providing we develop the capacity to ( self)organize, including through
>> the use of the internet and other means of communication.
>>
>> Facilitating self organization can spark empowerment in densifying the
>> interconnection of alternatives you and others document via the
>> p2pfoundation, which in turn can further empower a homebrew industrial
>> revolution / viable ( not debt dependent ) alternatives.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 4:47 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> dear Anna,
>>>
>>> I agree that constructing alternative livelyhoods is an important
>>> priority, but what about collectively organising social movements that are
>>> capable of solidarity ?
>>>
>>> isn't that also a failures, historically, social movements were based on
>>> membership, and through this institutionalisation, they were able to
>>> support long-term actions ..
>>>
>>> now, occupy/15m types movements are able to organize and scale rapidly,
>>> but what seems problematic is the capacity to endure ...
>>>
>>> have individual livelyhoods may not be enough, social movements
>>> themselves need to have means to support actions in the long term
>>>
>>> if I had time in 2014, which I haven't, I would focus on creating such a
>>> solidarity mechanism, and turn the p2p foundation into one, it would be a
>>> mixture of 'p2p factoring' to equalize revenue over the long term for the
>>> individuals involved, and solidarity mechanisms between individuals .. it
>>> would be a system available for all peer producers,
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>> Michel
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Dec 29, 2013 at 3:21 AM, Anna Harris <anna at shsh.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Wolfgang and Dante, Much the same feeling of abundance you are
>>>> talking about was expressed in the Occupy movement in many different
>>>> countries during 2011/12. Probably you know all about them.
>>>>
>>>> http://takethesquare.net/2011/07/15/how-to-cook-a-pacific-revolution/
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement
>>>>
>>>> In London at St Paul's there was a feeling of welcoming everyone, Food
>>>> and shelter were freely available, in the People's Assembles everyone had a
>>>> voice, and was listened to. There were study groups,  a mini bookshop and
>>>> university, with numerous talks on many different topics, women's groups,
>>>> and a newspaper was produced. Empty buildings were occupied and used for
>>>> conferences, child minding, yoga, meditation, etc.This was reproduced on a
>>>> smaller scale in many cities across UK, and around the world. It was a
>>>> spontaneous example of instant community building. They tried to link up
>>>> with Trade Unions, and support strikes, Some groups still continue to
>>>> function, though without living on the streets or in the square.
>>>>
>>>> But to my mind the main reason why it was not sustainable was because
>>>> they were living on charity, they raided dumpsters for food, and much was
>>>> given spontaneously, but there was no real relationship to the earth and
>>>> producing their own energy/food/water/waste disposal, etc.  What is needed
>>>> is an alternative system, which obviously lends itself to more rural areas,
>>>> which is where most communities are that have survived, rather than in the
>>>> cities,
>>>>
>>>> I would also agree with Michel, that what he calls the 'system inside
>>>> ourselves' needs attention. Activists often concentrate on changing the
>>>> society without understanding the need to also focus on the oppression we
>>>> have internalised within ourselves  (Paulo Friere - Pedagogy of the
>>>> Oppressed <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulo_Freire>) and which we
>>>> take with us into new freer structures. Living and sharing with others
>>>> requires a new consciousness, which may account for the failures which
>>>> Michel cites.  But re-introducing some authoritarian structure avoids
>>>> meeting the challenge of learning the new language which is required to
>>>> live in community. Any attempts even if they 'fail' are worth doing.
>>>>
>>>> Anna
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you Dante for sharing all these ideas and links! Very
>>>>> interesting.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll add some of those links to the Commons Abundance Network website.
>>>>>
>>>>> The nomadic people can help weave together the initiatives going on in
>>>>> different places, to transport ideas from one place to another - especially
>>>>> such ideas that require practice to work, that cannot be simply put into
>>>>> words but that have to be lived. Such conveyance of ideas, tacit knowledge,
>>>>> skills often takes time, so it can't just happen at conferences or
>>>>> workshops, but may take some days or weeks of working/living together.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nomads have also been seen with great suspicion by states ever since
>>>>> states emerged, because they are almost impossible to control. But they
>>>>> always existed on the geographical and other margins of the state, and even
>>>>> throughout their territory, because they can be essential for human
>>>>> interaction across distance. They help create dynamism.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure how to follow up further on this right now, but I think
>>>>> it would be very interesting to meet at some point. Since you apparently
>>>>> spend some of your time in Leipzig, maybe the next time I am in Germany we
>>>>> can meet?
>>>>>
>>>>> Wolfgang
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: commoning-bounces at listen.jpberlin.de on behalf of
>>>>> Dante-Gabryell Monson
>>>>> Sent: Sat 12/28/2013 3:52 AM
>>>>> To: commoning at listen.jpberlin.de; p2p-foundation;
>>>>> p2p-urbanism-world-atlas at googlegroups.com;
>>>>> bestwecando at lists.riseup.net; op-n-m at googlegroups.com;
>>>>> econowmix at googlegroups.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] The Co-operative University
>>>>> (Hoeschele,Wolfgang)
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Wolfgang,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for sharing your
>>>>> article<http://www.scribd.com/doc/49712621/Making-Place-for-Abundance
>>>>> >-
>>>>> it overlaps with approaches I like to take.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see a number of potentially overlapping and emergent "layers".
>>>>> I like to hear from other people's dreams or personal experiences.
>>>>>
>>>>> I see the potential for an understanding of distribution / aggregation
>>>>> layers, mutually empowering each other in an emergent way, building up
>>>>> critical diversity for further emergence, resilience, and ( ideally ? )
>>>>> viable systems.
>>>>>
>>>>> I ll be happy to map out our non linear understanding. ( a mapping tool
>>>>> where we can export our data ? )
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *// in advance, apologies to Silke - this will be a long post with a
>>>>> lot of
>>>>> links //*
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Some layers I experiment(ed) with , followed by a few projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to talk about Nomadism, as it embodies imho an understanding of
>>>>> distributed systems - understanding I wish to use even when not moving
>>>>> (
>>>>> geographically ).
>>>>>
>>>>> I see *layers of distribution and aggregation mutually empowering each
>>>>> other in an emergent way.*
>>>>>
>>>>> Short, medium and long term approaches , and resilience through their
>>>>> overlap, can also be taken into account.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to bring forward potentials for synergies and emergence ( based
>>>>> on
>>>>> "critical diversity" ? ), and using Integral
>>>>> City<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_City>and some research ( if
>>>>> one can call this research ? ) I did or am doing, to
>>>>> compare or apply it to.
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *- Nomadism :*
>>>>>
>>>>> *- it can imho be translated into the experience many more have, for
>>>>> example at a city scale , or also via "seminar hopping" lifestyles ,
>>>>> movie
>>>>> production lifestyles, etc  -*
>>>>>
>>>>> talking from personal experience
>>>>> of a type of nomadism based on a low ( monetary ) threshold ( hitch
>>>>> hiking
>>>>> ).
>>>>>
>>>>> I would aim at experiencing a flow of temporary autonomous zones (
>>>>> often
>>>>> events ), hitch hiking from the one to another, taking into
>>>>> consideration a
>>>>> "logistics of options" to direct myself across europe. ( moving east or
>>>>> west, north or south, depending on how events may seem to empower more
>>>>> options for intentional convergence and supporting needs at later
>>>>> stages )
>>>>>
>>>>> I am glad Wolfgang mentioned "non places".  Much of the time was spent
>>>>> crossing "non places", moving towards aggregators where, for a moment,
>>>>> some
>>>>> shared "warmth" could be experienced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nomadism ( especially moneyless , or almost moneyless )  , in my view,
>>>>> embodies *an experienced understanding of a distributed system of
>>>>> distributed systems* : hitch hiking as intentional distributed system -
>>>>> used as a layer to facilitate access to - ... hospitality as a
>>>>> distributed
>>>>> system - being hosted for a limited amount of time - ... which can
>>>>> empower
>>>>> meeting people, which itself can lead to events , to shared learning,
>>>>> distributed information networks, etc ...  each of these potentially
>>>>> empowering distributed intentional "tribes".
>>>>>
>>>>> Such social capital constantly being worked on - if not, the energy
>>>>> imho
>>>>> dissipates over time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Such understanding of nomadism ( / of distributed approaches ) can be
>>>>> applied within more specific geographical environments, such as a
>>>>> particular city itself.
>>>>> I guess others wrote about this ... ( Negri, Hardt, ... )
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally like the contents of this site :
>>>>> http://nomadology.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> It is important , imho, to reduce "empty places" and time ... as to
>>>>> make it
>>>>> viable.    Focusing on places where there is a higher density and
>>>>> diversity
>>>>> of mutually empowering potentials, that can , even if one uses a
>>>>> temporary
>>>>> autonomous approach, further feed other processes and enable a
>>>>> continuity
>>>>> of flow.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is some of my shared experience of too much "spreading out" :
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Beyond_Road_Burn_Out
>>>>>
>>>>> http://hitchwiki.org/en/Aimless_trajectory
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Convergence may be possible in cities - yet the cost of space , in
>>>>> monetary
>>>>> terms, or of securing access to space ( if one squats ) is often very
>>>>> high,
>>>>> itself leading people to allocate their time to service such monetary
>>>>> cost,
>>>>> reducing availability, and increasing the potential for "empty places"
>>>>> ...
>>>>> or "empty social places", as people are "too busy" ...
>>>>>
>>>>> Finding distributed approaches to use such spaces and generate spaces
>>>>> on
>>>>> top of existing infrastructure , as to converge social networks /
>>>>> aggregate, may be one approach.    Narratives imho also play a central
>>>>> role
>>>>> in such flows of aggregation.   Time, too, plays a role.   High
>>>>> turnovers
>>>>> in certain cities may not enable long term continuity or development of
>>>>> projects, unless a combination between longer term residents and short
>>>>> term
>>>>> residents can be found.
>>>>>
>>>>> Planning is not always possible when there is such constant
>>>>> reshuffling -
>>>>> hence the potential for stigmergic information tools to manage
>>>>> logistics of
>>>>> options and generate flow and emergent collective intelligence.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As it requires constant work on social networks,
>>>>> but also as I sense there is a need to create reference points for
>>>>> oneself
>>>>> to return to,
>>>>> aggregators which can overlap as to enable continuity , rather then
>>>>> leaving
>>>>> empty spaces of nothingness,
>>>>>
>>>>> after 5 years on the road I needed to find solutions for places of
>>>>> unconditional return.
>>>>>
>>>>> A tribe , even if it morphs, yet enables shared intention, can be such
>>>>> "home" - even if and when it moves in space.   Sometimes families can
>>>>> represent such form of tribe, yet in western societies , imho,
>>>>> families end
>>>>> up being instrumentalized in favor of dominant socio-cultural
>>>>> narratives.
>>>>>  In some cases, people like me who wish to generate alternative / less
>>>>> coercive narratives may end up marginalized from both society and
>>>>> family.
>>>>>
>>>>> Underlying logic that I notice from people in mainstream narratives
>>>>> being :
>>>>> "if I "have" to do this, why would s/he not , hence I can not support
>>>>> him,
>>>>> as it would furthermore requestion my own sacrifices over time to
>>>>> survive
>>>>> in this system".      Not all adopt such stance - and it is
>>>>> interesting to
>>>>> understand what processes or contexts opens people up ...
>>>>>
>>>>> //
>>>>>
>>>>> I see a need for overlap in terms of time frameworks.
>>>>>
>>>>> At casarobino ( a nomadbase.org which hosted over 1000 people in a
>>>>> small
>>>>> flat over a 3 year time framework ), I noticed how overlap between
>>>>> short
>>>>> term ( a night or two ), medium term ( a few days to a week ), and
>>>>> longer
>>>>> term ( a few weeks ? ) residents enabled transfer of self organized
>>>>> cultures and information needed for such self organization, and how it
>>>>> enabled some form of fluidity in terms of internal social dynamics.
>>>>> Furthermore, the casa seemed to serve an aggregation role, enabling a
>>>>> place
>>>>> of return on a longer time framework, leading to individuals coming
>>>>> back to
>>>>> the space, feeding and at the same time maintaining what imho looked
>>>>> like
>>>>> intentional subcultures enabling its self organization.  ( may be
>>>>> interesting to study this further in depth : the role of such
>>>>> aggregators,
>>>>> and intentions that may serve as shared engagment and underlying social
>>>>> contracts )
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> For the moment, debt seems to be one of the powerful forces leading
>>>>> people
>>>>> to be prepared to share engagement / generate social contracts. ( often
>>>>> generating more centralized control and artificial scarcity ? )
>>>>>
>>>>> To free ourselves from ( monopolistic and hierarchical ) debt
>>>>> information
>>>>> systems of control, I sense we need to generate alternative distributed
>>>>> engagement tools.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reification is imho risky business ( in terms of control - see this
>>>>> article<
>>>>> http://www.academia.edu/4498786/How_does_reification_ensure_our_wilful_subordination_to_authority
>>>>> >
>>>>> )
>>>>> , yet worth experimenting in a distributed form - to facilitate
>>>>> temporary
>>>>> aggregation ,  as stigmergic tools ?   ( hence mentioning the netention
>>>>> research, which also includes understanding regarding Linked Data, ...
>>>>> )
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet, indeed, "places" can be aggregators.
>>>>> I see the risk of "institutionalization" of places ( and centralized
>>>>> control )
>>>>>
>>>>> Potentially, such institutionalization of spaces can be ok as long as
>>>>> networkes are not enclosed within it, and that such networks can access
>>>>> sufficient diversity, as to never depend on any one source ... yet be
>>>>> able
>>>>> to build on top of institutionalized infrastructure, although I do not
>>>>> see
>>>>> this as a solution.   Ideally, one would aim at enabling distributed
>>>>> forms
>>>>> of ( temporary ) infrastructure away from institutional influence and
>>>>> conditions.
>>>>>
>>>>> In some cases, there may be potential to support a distributed commons
>>>>> through institutional support, playing on the strategic interests of
>>>>> specific institutions in doing so - yet rarely does this seem to come,
>>>>> imho, without a cost / conditions.   Mapping externalities can be a
>>>>> potential of tools such as suggested by netention research - including
>>>>> practices visualizing open value networks ?
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is some research ( draft ) I did as to attempt such approach in
>>>>> Leipzig.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project
>>>>>
>>>>> The idea being to benefit from existing infrastructure, at a lower
>>>>> cost (
>>>>> in terms of debt ), and creating a sufficiently great diversity and
>>>>> amount
>>>>> of individual projects, as to build distributed systems on top of the
>>>>> proposal of the usership of a living space
>>>>>
>>>>> Prices in Leipzig now seem to have increased - so I needed to change
>>>>> approach.
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>> Using the potential for FabLabs / local small scale manufacturing
>>>>> based on
>>>>> open source research and development,
>>>>>
>>>>> I imagine using vacant spaces ( in urban or countryside environments )
>>>>> to build up temporary housing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eric H. used the terms "pop up villages" and "furnitecture" (
>>>>> portemanteau
>>>>> for furniture and architecture )
>>>>>
>>>>> see : http://sharewiki.org/en/Spime_Housing
>>>>>
>>>>> It can include approaches such as wikihouse ( http://www.wikihouse.cc/) ,
>>>>> ...
>>>>> Ideally, I imagine modular and parametric approaches ( I noticed some
>>>>> designer and architect active on Edgeryder forums think so too )
>>>>>
>>>>> Some cities, such as Brussels, see imho high turnovers ( 15 to 20
>>>>> percent
>>>>> of its population annually ? ).   There is a lack of housing, prices
>>>>> are
>>>>> rising as population increases, etc
>>>>>
>>>>> In such kind of context, I also see the potential for some of the
>>>>> approaches expressed earlier on ,
>>>>>
>>>>> using the potential of massive amounts of vacant space ( for example :
>>>>> over
>>>>> 2 million square meters of empty office space )
>>>>>
>>>>> to generate temporary contracts where temporary structures (
>>>>> furnitecture /
>>>>> urban pop up villages ) can be set up, as some form of temporary
>>>>> living.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example in Brussels :
>>>>> http://www.annedoloresmarcelis.com/index.php?/camping-town/
>>>>>
>>>>> Various subcultures can / are converging and overlapping, with each
>>>>> having
>>>>> high turnovers, or people keeping a base while living nomadic
>>>>> lifestyles -
>>>>> for example dancer networks, theatre networks, but also all kinds of
>>>>> students, people doing internships, people on short term contracts for
>>>>> international institutions or businesses, etc
>>>>>
>>>>> The environment itself can generate new layers and opportunities.
>>>>>
>>>>> Beyond reducing costs / increasing quality of life with limited
>>>>> monetary
>>>>> income via a sharing economy approach,
>>>>>
>>>>> it can be about generating conviviality , liberating time by reducing
>>>>> costs, and increasing potential for interactions around shared
>>>>> intentions
>>>>> or interests.
>>>>>
>>>>> Freed time opens up potential for participatory action research and
>>>>> learning.
>>>>>
>>>>> Approaches that combine subcultures and generations can also be
>>>>> adopted.
>>>>> It can be an evolution from the "co-living" approaches which have
>>>>> permeated
>>>>> into many urban living / social practices.
>>>>>
>>>>> In effect, such types of temporary spaces generating defacto "free
>>>>> schools",
>>>>> some of them leading to "project incubation"
>>>>>
>>>>> Also see :
>>>>>
>>>>> http://opendoor.io/  --> projects
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>> I wanted to generate such spaces for a number of years,
>>>>>
>>>>> yet I realize that a more specific and easily understood narrative is
>>>>> needed to enable shared intentional engagement.
>>>>>
>>>>> A narrative for a "school" can be an example of a way to bootstrap such
>>>>> engagement.   Incubators , coworking spaces , or even, in the
>>>>> countryside,
>>>>> permaculture or construction / renovation projects can all be
>>>>> narratives
>>>>> attracting people for a certain period of time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yet often there needs to be a "spark", and the threshold for such spark
>>>>> often requires a minimum of resources ... which itself already requires
>>>>> engagement.
>>>>>
>>>>> Although I shared this link earlier on , also see :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://emergentbydesign.com/2012/01/08/93-superhero-schools-collaboratories-incubators-accelerators-hubs-for-social-tech-innovation/
>>>>>
>>>>> ///
>>>>>
>>>>> Convergences such as
>>>>> http://bwcd.vdcn.org/doku.php
>>>>>
>>>>> seem to already be a filter for those ready to engage in setting such
>>>>> prototypes...   hopefully building on the experience of past
>>>>> "communes",
>>>>> but hopefully also enabling neo nomadic / distributed overlap, as
>>>>> explained
>>>>> in this mail.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 28, 2013 at 12:28 AM, Hoeschele, Wolfgang <
>>>>> whoesch at truman.edu>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Thank you for your thoughts, Anna, Dante, Wouter!
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Something that I wrote that resonates with what you are saying,
>>>>> Dante, is
>>>>> > here:
>>>>> > http://www.scribd.com/doc/49712621/Making-Place-for-Abundance
>>>>> >
>>>>> > And of course, at the Commons Abundance Network, we are seeking to
>>>>> provide
>>>>> > links to any initiatives of the types that you mentioned, and
>>>>> develop our
>>>>> > network as a virtual collaboration space to help such things
>>>>> develop. The
>>>>> > more networking there is among such initiatives, both online and in
>>>>> actual
>>>>> > places, the more they will be able to coalesce into real
>>>>> alternatives.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Wolfgang
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: commoning-bounces at listen.jpberlin.de on behalf of Wouter
>>>>> Tebbens
>>>>> > Sent: Fri 12/27/2013 4:54 PM
>>>>> > To: Dante-Gabryell Monson
>>>>> > Cc: commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [commoning] [P2P-F] The Co-operative University
>>>>> (Hoeschele,
>>>>> > Wolfgang) (Hoeschele, Wolfgang)
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dante,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I love the idea of such "uncompromised temple". It would be a
>>>>> reference
>>>>> > site where so many free/libre/open/commons-governed/knowledge
>>>>> initiatives
>>>>> > would come together.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ideally it would be in a bottom-up organised country. And it would of
>>>>> > course be a node in the distributed network of already existing
>>>>> nodes.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Some would spend more time their while others, even with a longtime
>>>>> > commitment, would only come there physically from time to time.
>>>>> Teachers,
>>>>> > learners of all disciplines would join in special sharing sessions to
>>>>> > construct collective knowledge and common projects.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > As you say, if such initiative can be seen as a kind of insurance,
>>>>> it will
>>>>> > be easier for some to invest/contribute. The transition is probably
>>>>> not
>>>>> > going to be easy for many people, so assuring some basics would be
>>>>> helpful.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I need to continue other conversations right now, but the ideas
>>>>> discussed
>>>>> > here have my interest. Thanks and best wishes for sustainable and
>>>>> solidary
>>>>> > systems.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Best
>>>>> > Wouter
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dante-Gabryell Monson <dante.monson at gmail.com> escribi?:
>>>>> >
>>>>> > >_______________________________________________
>>>>> > >commoning Mailingliste
>>>>> > >JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>>> > >commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>>> > >https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
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>>>>> ****************************************
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> commoning Mailingliste
>>>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>
>>> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>
>>> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> commoning Mailingliste
>>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> commoning Mailingliste
>> JPBerlin - Politischer Provider
>> commoning at listen.jpberlin.de
>> https://listen.jpberlin.de/mailman/listinfo/commoning
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>
> <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates:
> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>
> #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/
>
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