[P2P-F] LAW grps Buzz from Michel Bauwens

Mon Nov 18 16:42:23 CET 2013

well, the 'facts' are actually very thin, ... and I wouldn't blame
Anonymous but just a few people abusing the account in the close physical
vicinity of Heather Marsh ...

Michel

On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 11:22 AM, Mark Petz <ravenwyn at gmail.com> wrote:

> I wonder if the case study of what has happened to you with Anonymous
> might make a suitable case study? And I wonder if the Journal of
> Criminality might make a good location to publish it?
>
> M
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mark,
>>
>> I see your point,
>>
>> still it shows also the dark side of 'commons' derived vigitante justice,
>> if it thus not protect the right of individuals and becomes the vehicle for
>> whatever 'common feeling' dominates at any given moment,
>>
>> would be great if you could write something publishable on this!!
>>
>> Michel
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 12:30 AM, Mark Petz <ravenwyn at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> OK Vehmic Courts and the Vigilantes are done outside the system of
>>> authoritarianism. So the others were based on a feudal system - one that
>>> was controlled in a *hierarchy*
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hierarchy
>>>
>>> Outside of this system I want to take the individual things separately
>>>
>>> 1, Vigilantism -
>>>
>>> "such individuals fulfill the like-minded wishes of the community"
>>>
>>> is found here
>>>
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante
>>>
>>> So to me this is about peers sharing a view of justice and the sanctions
>>> that derive from it. They usually subject their peers to this form of
>>> justice. Of course they may violate civil rights - but that is because the
>>> "civil rights" ARE designated by the government - which is hierachical and
>>> non communal in many cases. It certainly is not a peer to peer governance.
>>>
>>> There are examples where such peer to peer justice is happening on-line:
>>> 4chan, Justice League in Second Life are perhaps the best known forms. It
>>> could happen in a bulletin board where rating of comments is given for
>>> example troll quotients  - and does to some extent in wikipedia where
>>> people can be banned from editing articles or have accounts suspended. Of
>>> course in this case the rules are written - but if you look at the praxis
>>> you will find that there is no judge or appeal process and no jury system -
>>> it is a peer to peer justice and can be quite variable.
>>>
>>> Now off line - I would say some of the vigilantism is the same with
>>> authorities not being competent to decide - you can see this in THE SCENT
>>> OF A WOMAN film - with a school boy code talked about. I cannot know what
>>> your schooling was like, but in most UK schools the concept of "A Grass"
>>> and the same in Prisons leads to such a commons.
>>>
>>> I haven't studied in depth this to find out aspects of the commons in
>>> it, and much reporting is from a negative view point (for example when will
>>> you hear of anyone defending carrying knives for self-defence? but you will
>>> often hear of the benefits of carrying guns for self-defence - there are
>>> reasons for this related to who can get and control the weapons and thus
>>> who reports on them).
>>>
>>> 2. Vehmic Courts - initially this looks like it is just another
>>> hierarchical system, just in parallel to the main justice system - much as
>>> the system was set up in Kosava or Albania during times of trouble - with
>>> things being decided in large communal meetings, including justice, yet
>>> still clear leads and council of elders approach.
>>>
>>> BUT I think it is not the Catholic Church hierarchy - but closer to
>>> sharia law as practiced in many communities today - where the people felt
>>> that the religion was not being properly enforced - so in common they had a
>>> belief that something needed judgement and the Church and State were not
>>> giving that. They thus leant their tacit support to this and held the
>>> judgements as correct in common. So there was a commonality here that the
>>> state and church apparatus did not have.
>>>
>>> It is more than just "the court of public opinion"
>>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Court_of_public_opinion
>>>
>>> as there is a belief that the governance is held by the people. Judge
>>> and Jury and Executioner.
>>>
>>>
>>> I HOPE THAT IS CLEAR WHERE I COULD SEE PHILOSOPHICAL UNDERPINNING OF
>>> COMMONS IN THESE FORMS OF JUSTICE. I was so long in replying as too much to
>>> do! I will send you a mail on one other aspect of commons justice called
>>> Ran Tanning
>>>
>>> Markus
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at2:45 AM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi mark,
>>>>
>>>> apart from the egalitarian diggers and levellers,
>>>>
>>>> how do you see the vehmic courts and vigilantes are related to the
>>>> commons? I would rather call them anti-commons, since they violate basic
>>>> civic rights,
>>>>
>>>> Michel
>>>>
>>>> On Tuou e, Nov 16, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Mark Petz <ravenwyn at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> OK here is some
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehmic_court
>>>>> http://www.sacred-texts.com/sro/sma/sma26.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.diggers.org/top_entry.htm
>>>>> http://levellers.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilante
>>>>>
>>>>> Sharia law can be argued as similar in the way it is executed -
>>>>> although there are authoritries it is not so common.
>>>>>
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>>   Link to this post:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.google.com/buzz/116589201391591303703/S6ohkQKuhRf/mbauwens-Added-to-the-wiki-Sources-of-Commons-Law
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nov 15 *Michel Bauwens:* mbauwens <http://twitter.com/mbauwens>:
>>>>>> Added to the wiki: Sources of Commons Law: http://bit.ly/aZXQAi
>>>>>> Nov 15 *Mark Petz:* what about things like the Fehm Gerichte in
>>>>>> Bayern? Or vigilante justice? These are also forms of common law. Such
>>>>>> sentiments gave rise to Diggers and Levellers
>>>>>> Nov 15 *Michel Bauwens:* if you have any precise references, I'd
>>>>>> like to add them to this list
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
>>>> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>>>
>>>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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>>>>
>>>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>>>
>>>> Think tank:
>>>> http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>
>> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>> http://listcultures.org/mailman/listinfo/p2presearch_listcultures.org
>>
>> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>
>> Think tank: http://www.asianforesightinstitute.org/index.php/eng/The-AFI
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

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