[P2P-F] Fwd: Ancient Athens didn't have politicians. Is there a lesson for us?

Wed Jan 16 14:17:07 CET 2013

On Wed, Jan 16, 2013 00:46:20 AM -0800, Karl Robillard wrote:
> On Monday, January 14, 2013 09:44:58 AM M. Fioretti wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 15:19:28 PM -0800, Karl Robillard wrote:
> > > On Saturday, January 12, 2013 04:44:37 PM M. Fioretti wrote:
> > > > I really think that the first thing that made the "Athenian model"
> > > > possible in the first place was that their world was much simpler and
> > > > smaller.
> > > 
> > > That's true that they lived in a less complex environment, but we
> > > have much better techniques and tools to handle complexity here in
> > > 2013.
> > 
> > I don't think that this, even if true, is sufficient, or maybe even
> > relevant.
> 
> That was kind of my point.  The complexity you perceive is relative

I seriously think you misunderstood me (it could be my fault, of course)

No, certain complexity isn't relative at all. Not if you want to live
in a certain way, at least. Please do read all my previous messages in
this thread. I'm not talking of laws artificially made overly complex
on _purpose_ (a huge problems of our time) to keep power.

I'm talking of the intrinsical complexity of technical issues today vs
those the average Athenian had to face 2500 years ago. See the
examples I already made.

> To say that the average person is not capable of helping to organize
> society is an endorsement for authoritarianism.  Will you stand for
> direct democracy, or will you be ruled by bureaucrats and
> technocrats?

A critique to 100% direct democracy isn't necessarily an endorsement
of authoritarianism. What on earth makes you suggest that?

This said, if YOU really want to frame the issue in that way (which is
misleading IMO, but OK):

I'd rather be ruled by bureaucrats and technocrats that are really,
really accountable, rather than from continuous vote of many
individuals who are (including ME, of course) thouroughly
disinterested and incompetent on many topics, and therefore, in many
cases, would hit the right decision just out of luck or statistics.

Marco