[P2P-F] Fwd: Ancient Athens didn't have politicians. Is there a lesson for us?

Fri Jan 11 23:32:45 CET 2013

A basic income http://p2pfoundation.net/Basic_Income  would allow people to
take part in governance, ie a random selected group to focus for a week on
a particular issue. It would also deal with the problem of *over
production*which is endemic in developed countries, and avoid the
focus on providing
jobs, as the necessary solution to poverty, which contributes to increasing
production, accompanied by exhorting people to consume more than they need.

Anna

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 9:58 PM, Orsan Senalp <orsan1234 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Since the demise of the Athenian model -which was physically made
> possible thanks to the slave labour so that every citizen had the time
> to govern or learn how to govern things when their turn came up- the
> question is still how to get rid of kaisers, cesars, sultans, kings,
> chars, empires, presidents, ministers etc that capture the social
> power and turn against the people. A political economy equation
> underlies this question of course which involves several sub
> questions: i. how to convince the bullying social class elements who
> socialise and continuously and creatively reproduce themselves through
> complex historical structures, ii. how to de-construct these
> structures and transform them into new version of Athenian models that
> work transnationally as well as in their own contexts, iii. and what
> is the productive model that will allow people to take role in such
> modern direct governance models so they could function.
>
>
> On 11 January 2013 20:14, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <xekoukou at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Letting people literally become the state is the best way to protect
> > Democracy. But how efficient is this?
> >
> > The good thing is that today we have the internet and thus it is much
> easier
> > to have a decentralized state by the people, thus solutions like these
> could
> > for some things scale without costing a lot.
> >
> > I wonder if there has been any mathematical research for the amount of
> > decentralization that is required so that a hegemonic class doesnt
> emerge.
> >
> > I'd prefer it to be mathematical because I know a lot of opinions on this
> > matter which are always interrelated with one's political
> > agenda.(reformist,anarchist,revolutionary marxist,capitalist)
> > .
> >
> > 2013/1/11 George Dafermos - TBM <G.N.Dafermos at tudelft.nl>
> >>
> >> i suppose that was probably meant as a joke, right?
> >> x,
> >> g.
> >>
> >>
> >> >No, at least for America where we have a Constitution "of, by and for
> >> >the People".  Athens didn't have a government of the People.
> >> >
> >> >mark
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> >> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> >> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> >
> > Sincerely yours,
> >
> >      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> > http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> > https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> P2P Foundation - Mailing list
> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: https://lists.ourproject.org/pipermail/p2p-foundation/attachments/20130111/fb76cf67/attachment.htm 