[P2P-F] A currency proposal

Dante-Gabryell Monson dante.monson at gmail.com
Sat Aug 24 15:47:02 CEST 2013

Hi Apostolis,

I feel that , although it is still in development / in prototype stage,
you could use Netention to set up and invite others to participate in such
information architecture.


It would also become possible to see overlaps between different implemented
( or suggested ) information architectures. ( including the current
mainstream and monopolistic corporate credit information architecture )


a prototype android interface is also in development.

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013 at 3:20 PM, Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <
xekoukou at gmail.com> wrote:

> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis <xekoukou at gmail.com>
> Date: 2013/8/24
> Subject: [Ripple] Re: Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
> To: rippleusers at googlegroups.com
> Hailie Bosque,
> This money is quite different than any other you have seen, it isn't the
> non-transferrable money that Marx was talking about.
> The problem it tries to solve is to block the accumulation of money to a
> few people. For that, it is important to understand 2 processes.
> a)the cycle of accumulation: Even today that we have a centralization of
> power, in order for money to create more money, one needs to spread an
> amount of money to multiple people, the workers who will work for the
> capitalist so that he eventually gets more money. Thus this cycle of money
> starts from a centralized point to a distributed number of workers and
> eventually back to the centralized point.
> b) There are 2 types of work in most production processes, the one is the
> initial work for the construction of a factory or other tools. This is
> called fixed capital. The other is the work of the people that operate the
> tools and the factory. The second workers cannot pay in advance the first
> workers. Thus they rely on the capitalist to give the money and in return
> they sell their working power lower than the price they would ask otherwise.
> Now I' ll give you an example.
> Let's say that we are able to track the transfers of property, either
> products or money.
> Lets also assume for this example that we only have worker cooperatives
> that own the tools they are using in direct contrast to current capitalism.
> Capitalist -->Factory Workers -->Workers--->Consumers---\
>      ^
>           |
>      \----------------------------**------------------------------**
> --------------------/
> Cap gives money to factory workers, and they give him a factory.
> Cap gives the factory to the workers, and they accept to give him back a
> percentage of their earnings.
> Here lies a problem:
> The money that the capitalist payed the factory workers is different than
> the money he got from the Workers. This is due to b).
> My proposal is that the workers in general,(here the factory workers)
> should be able to reclaim back their products and the money one gets from
> them in a future time.
> This is how it can be done.
> At any time, the workers(here the factory workers) make a cheaper offer of
> their products to the consumers (here the workers).
> At the same time, they are obliged to build a new factory for the
> capitalist.
> Thus, they switch back their old work with new work.
> If we allow that, there can be no profits for the capitalist, or the
> profits will be decentralizedly split between the factory workers.
> Thus because of a) we have a distributed ownership of products/money.
> Till now I have used the term money quite vaguely. What I really mean is
> that each worker/worker cooperative creates his own currencies which
> correspond to the products they make.
> ex.
> I make clothes, thus I have a t-shirt currency.
> I own 5 bread currencies, 30 chair c. and 5 motorbike c.
> I give 5 motorbile c in exchange for 1 car c.
> Unless I explicitelly state that the car c. is for personal use and thus
> non-transferable,
> the motorbike workers could reclaim their 5 motorbike c. and thus the 1
> car c. i got.
> They could offer to give my 5 bike c. plus one in exchange of the car c.
> I would receive 5 new motorbike currencies.
> This is the basic idea. I am always happy when people point me to errors.
> This is as of yet unfinished work.
> (keep in mind that workers should always own the tools they are using,
> this is a prerequisitive, it can be done easilly, i think)
> For this to be done it mostly requires computer programming. Because of
> the advances in computer programming this is quite feasible, (think of
> facebook, google) and open source big data tools.
> (it may take me some time to respond)
> On Saturday, August 24, 2013 3:53:03 AM UTC+3, Hailie Bosque wrote:
>> Hi, I'm trying to get in touch with Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis.
>> You posted something on an internet forum about your ideas for an
>> anarchist-socialist economy with non-circulating currency.
>> I'd like to hear more about this, but you no longer use that internet
>> forum, so I found you here.
>> I hope nobody thinks this is off topic, because this type of economic
>> system does relate to the focus of this group. Maybe Apostolis will share
>> his ideas with all of us.
>> I hope you can be reached this way, if so send a reply and I'll give you
>> my email address.
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> Sincerely yours,
>      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis
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