[P2P-F] Fw: Can "Printing" Money Save Economies? The Answer, Yes, and No....

Mon Sep 26 19:00:39 CEST 2011

your making a serious accusation here, what evidence do you have that Ellen
Brown does not simply disagree, but is actually funded for disinformation by
the banking cartel ?

In fact, all the evidence is that they would hate her book, which is an
argument for the sovereign creation of money and against debt-based currency
creation,

the attacks against anyone who disagrees, such as Krugman, Stiglizt, Brown
etc .. gives the impression that MMT behaves more like a cult than to engage
in open and peer-based debate ..

Michel

On Mon, Sep 26, 2011 at 7:55 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:

> Please, excuse, and some of the text is partial and misleading. This
> objection should not be taken in an ad hominen intent. The British had at
> least one printing press operating on a ship in the New York harbor busily
> counterfeiting the Continentals and then putting them into circulation. So
> no, the Continental Congress's use of the Continentals did not produce
> inflation, but the British counterfeiting operation did. Dys-information
> regarding monetary practices and history is a well established tactic and
> it usually arrives in the form of Pop-economics funded by the banking
> cartel to preserve their monopolistic franchise. Brown is a popular and
> clear example of this process. The differences between the monetary
> policies of the US Union as compared to the monetary policies of the
> Southern Confederacy is a much better example. Generally Zarlenga's book
> can serve as an antidote. I believe that Abba Lerner did extensive
> research into the details of the economics of the US Confederacy which as
> a confederacy was not even a sovereignty based process, and actually close
> to the present EMU process. So much for looking into history to find more
> than a simple reflection of present presumptions.
>
> Regarding the "legality" of sovereign governments printing their own
> currency it is actually the standard, except that we have been led to
> believe that it is the franchise of privately owned banking cartel is the
> only "real" and accepted process, which is straight away false. No, it is
> not a legitimate subject of research, unless the details of MMT are
> declared by conflation and misrepresentation to be falsified, or if the
> intent is to sustain the privatized franchise or to re-invent MMT under a
> different branding. Zimbabwe is frequently pulled out as a bad example of
> the use of the sovereign use of currency, while simultaneously ignoring
> the massive incompetence and self dealing of that government. If there is
> an interest in a different slant on the hyper-inflation hyper-ventilation
> try this article.
>
> http://www.economics.arawakcity.org/node/233
>
> While I appreciate in principle the P2P model deeply, it has to involve
> some level of rigorous discourse and examination. Despite the popularity
> of Ellen Brown, her material continues to play to a strategy of persuasion
> rather than analysis based upon informing facts, practices, and history. I
> did a close review of her "Money As Debt" for the AMI at one point and it
> is primarily a product of persuasion, not scientific in any serious sense.
> Her personal history was that previously she, as an attorney, specialized
> in writing briefs. That process boils down to picking a conclusion and a
> few key premises and then finding precedents which appear to validate the
> targeted conclusions. It is a rhetorical process to win an argument, and
> has little to do with on the ground history of facts. At one point Randall
> Wray offered to tutor Brown when she passed through Kansas City. Mo.
> promoting her book and self. She declined by not responding at all. This
> is how default paradigms get reproduced in an seemingly endless process.
>
> Tadit
>
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:07:04 -0400, robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Forwarded Message -----
> > From: robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> > To: "dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk" <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
> > Sent: Monday, 26 September 2011, 12:54
> > Subject: Can "Printing" Monye Save Economies?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > If for whatever reasons governments cannot pay off their debts one way
> > of achieving economic stability is to "print" it en masse!! This is not
> > ofcourse a good debt concellation/reduction plan (!) as it could lead to
> > serious inflation, or even hyperinflation.....but it can work..if not
> > too much money is created by governments. Something like this could
> > ultimately save the Euro if it occurs on a large enough scale.
> >
> > In pre-revolutionary America colonists found it very difficult to raise
> > funds in the various States they created. So, they resorted to the
> > printing press. Quite often this worked but not always (ref. Ellen
> > Brown/Web of Debt). Infact, the American War of Independence was funded
> > by printing money. This money was known as the Continentals but it
> > ultimately lead to serious inflation. However, it is claimed that the
> > Brits had been "flooding" the money supply with fake copies. The same
> > claim was also made about the Assignats created during the French
> > Revolution (ref. Zarlenga, and his key book on money). The American
> > Civil War was funded by Lincoln with his Greenbacks notes created by the
> > then existing government. This did not lead serious inflation as far as
> > we know...The Russian Revolution was largely funded in a like manner
> > though there is some talk about some capital being borrowed by private
> > foreign commercial banks.
> >
> > It appears too that Hitlers miracle economic "revolution" leading to WII
> > was due to simply printing money but with strong price controls in place
> > on many products. Apparently, the same goes for the funding of the
> > Vietnam War when President Johnson admitted that it could not be
> > financed by taxation because the war was  so unpopular .......This is a
> > big subject, and no doubt other examples have not been included here
> > (notably Zimbabwe!!).
> >
> >
> > There are a number of articles about Hitler "printing" money on the
> > internet along with the Vietnam War (plus the  Assignats, Greenbacks, et
> > cetera, et cetera).  As far as I understand it governments cannot
> > legally create money electronically en direct into  the economy.
> > However, it is not fully  clear whether they can still print it
> > "legally". To very limitedextent this occurs but if huge amounts were
> > to  be involved this might require somekind of legal arrangement. This
> > is still subject to research.
> >
> >
> http://www.google.co.uk/#pq=hitler+and+monetary+reform&hl=en&sugexp=tsh&cp=19&gs_id=20&xhr=t&q=hitler+prints+money&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=hitler+prints+money&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92910b6b81417d8f&biw=1024&bih=585
> >
> >
> >
> http://www.google.co.uk/#pq=hitler+prints+money&hl=en&sugexp=tsh&cp=40&gs_id=3f&xhr=t&q=vietnam+president+johnson+printing+print+money&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&source=hp&pbx=1&oq=vietnam+president+johnson+printing+print+money&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=&gs_upl=&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=92910b6b81417d8f&biw=1024&bih=585
>
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