[P2P-F] Re.... "Relevant" Economists for the P2P Foundation...

Thu Sep 22 19:01:13 CEST 2011

well spotted, it should have been 'wouldn't' !!

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:54 PM, Sandwichman <lumpoflabor at gmail.com> wrote:

> I presume you unintentionally omitted an 'nt in your last paragraph, first
> sentence, Michel.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>wrote:
>
>> not sure if political economists equals political economy ..
>>
>> the latter indicates that the economy is inherently political and linked
>> to the political and social structure of society, as well as value choices
>> ...
>>
>> so-called scientific economists, but as we know, ideologues, have
>> eliminated the 'political', to create the impression that the economy is
>> just some objective value-free functioning that can be modelled etc ...
>>
>> outside of this historical frame, every economist is political in the
>> narrow sense of the word as well, there is no way to have a vision and an
>> understand of the economy, outside of political and social choices
>>
>> On another issue, the issue of labor and employment. While it is
>> undoubtedly true that technology and its productivity eliminates jobs, it is
>> equally true that there are many unmet human and social needs that could be
>> taken up 'as jobs', and have been. The welfare state and mutualism have
>> created a vast array of services that did not exist before while its
>> prosperity has created a vast entertainment complex. Of course, other
>> options would be available, such as shortening the working week.
>>
>> However, to analyse the 2008 meltdown as a result of technological
>> productivity (technology destroying jobs) is in my view profoundly
>> misleading. The joblessness we are experiencing is not a result of a sudden
>> drop in need, but to the many interlocking factors that are part of
>> capitalist crisis and in particular the exhaustion of a Kondratieff wave and
>> a particular economic model.
>>
>> Which does not mean that confronted with unemployment, a reduction of the
>> working week would make economic sense. Joblessness is not an objective
>> result of technology, but a particular, choice-laden expression of an
>> economic crisis. The answer to the crisis is equally political, whether it
>> is 'jobs for all through time reduction', or the choice of very different
>> models such as the basic income etc ..
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 9:18 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
>>
>>> One of the rules of thumb I have used is that if an "economist" does not
>>> place the managment of the "community," "niche," or even "commons"
>>> central
>>> to their ideas of an economic theory and fiscal policy, they are mostly
>>> likely "political" 'economists." This is under the pretense of economics
>>> appearing to be iconic natural "scientists," very much in the manner of
>>> 19th century physics but with the lifting of forms of theoretical
>>> modeling
>>> of physics and chemistry that are mistaken as evidence of the credibility
>>> of economics as a "social physics" to use Emile Durkheim's aspiration.
>>>
>>> Further back this takes us into a patch of the history of ideas when it
>>> was 'assumed' that doing science was an occupation of the rich and well
>>> born. Positing science essentially elevates a hand of of assumptions
>>> beyond examination. The ensuing "discourse" lacks an interest in
>>> reproducing a bit of the open inductive process by way of a discourse
>>> held
>>> in common. Are their principles and assumptions concerning the "commons"
>>> and the ongoing enclosures?
>>>
>>> Pop-economics often operates in a similar manner in that the merit of a
>>> policy or practice is validated largely upon various poorly defined
>>> values. Some times the effort involved can be huge. I set out to review a
>>> pop-level economics book once that after 50 pages of the author's text, I
>>> had 15 pages of commentary including the results of following references
>>> back to the source to see if the article, piece of legislation, and
>>> history match up with the conclusions drawn and 'facts' asserted. For the
>>> most part the problems and misappropriation of every thing handy and
>>> likely to be persuasive.
>>>
>>> The issue comes to be how to sort out the varieties of fraud, in
>>> particular when the evidence and substantives offered don't provide much
>>> actual validation based upon a scientific discourse based upon match up
>>> to
>>> details of adequacy, validity, applicability, and reliability. Faith
>>> based
>>> economics usually runs aground much like proprietary software that is
>>> large on the  return on investment ratios  and then light concern
>>> elsewhere. This is also where labor is considered to be simply a
>>> commodity
>>> and having no conception or concern that economies tend to be demand side
>>> driven, not by the supply side.
>>>
>>> Pay no attention to the suits behind the corporate curtain.
>>>
>>>
>>> Tadit Anderson
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:18:28 -0400, robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> >  I do not know whether the following will be of use......personally, I
>>> > do not have alot of respect for economists but unfortunately they still
>>> > have great influence in society, politics, and banking
>>> >  http://ideas.repec.org/coupe.html
>>> >
>>> http://www.superscholar.org/features/20-most-influential-living-economists/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Biographies/Philosophy/BiosEcon.htm#top
>>> >
>>> >  RS.
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://www.p2pfoundation.net
>>> https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
> Sandwichman
>
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