[P2P-F] Re.... "Relevant" Economists for the P2P Foundation...

[Sandwichman]

I presume you unintentionally omitted an 'nt in your last paragraph, first
sentence, Michel.

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 9:40 AM, Michel Bauwens <michel at p2pfoundation.net>wrote:

> not sure if political economists equals political economy ..
>
> the latter indicates that the economy is inherently political and linked to
> the political and social structure of society, as well as value choices ...
>
> so-called scientific economists, but as we know, ideologues, have
> eliminated the 'political', to create the impression that the economy is
> just some objective value-free functioning that can be modelled etc ...
>
> outside of this historical frame, every economist is political in the
> narrow sense of the word as well, there is no way to have a vision and an
> understand of the economy, outside of political and social choices
>
> On another issue, the issue of labor and employment. While it is
> undoubtedly true that technology and its productivity eliminates jobs, it is
> equally true that there are many unmet human and social needs that could be
> taken up 'as jobs', and have been. The welfare state and mutualism have
> created a vast array of services that did not exist before while its
> prosperity has created a vast entertainment complex. Of course, other
> options would be available, such as shortening the working week.
>
> However, to analyse the 2008 meltdown as a result of technological
> productivity (technology destroying jobs) is in my view profoundly
> misleading. The joblessness we are experiencing is not a result of a sudden
> drop in need, but to the many interlocking factors that are part of
> capitalist crisis and in particular the exhaustion of a Kondratieff wave and
> a particular economic model.
>
> Which does not mean that confronted with unemployment, a reduction of the
> working week would make economic sense. Joblessness is not an objective
> result of technology, but a particular, choice-laden expression of an
> economic crisis. The answer to the crisis is equally political, whether it
> is 'jobs for all through time reduction', or the choice of very different
> models such as the basic income etc ..
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 9:18 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
>
>> One of the rules of thumb I have used is that if an "economist" does not
>> place the managment of the "community," "niche," or even "commons" central
>> to their ideas of an economic theory and fiscal policy, they are mostly
>> likely "political" 'economists." This is under the pretense of economics
>> appearing to be iconic natural "scientists," very much in the manner of
>> 19th century physics but with the lifting of forms of theoretical modeling
>> of physics and chemistry that are mistaken as evidence of the credibility
>> of economics as a "social physics" to use Emile Durkheim's aspiration.
>>
>> Further back this takes us into a patch of the history of ideas when it
>> was 'assumed' that doing science was an occupation of the rich and well
>> born. Positing science essentially elevates a hand of of assumptions
>> beyond examination. The ensuing "discourse" lacks an interest in
>> reproducing a bit of the open inductive process by way of a discourse held
>> in common. Are their principles and assumptions concerning the "commons"
>> and the ongoing enclosures?
>>
>> Pop-economics often operates in a similar manner in that the merit of a
>> policy or practice is validated largely upon various poorly defined
>> values. Some times the effort involved can be huge. I set out to review a
>> pop-level economics book once that after 50 pages of the author's text, I
>> had 15 pages of commentary including the results of following references
>> back to the source to see if the article, piece of legislation, and
>> history match up with the conclusions drawn and 'facts' asserted. For the
>> most part the problems and misappropriation of every thing handy and
>> likely to be persuasive.
>>
>> The issue comes to be how to sort out the varieties of fraud, in
>> particular when the evidence and substantives offered don't provide much
>> actual validation based upon a scientific discourse based upon match up to
>> details of adequacy, validity, applicability, and reliability. Faith based
>> economics usually runs aground much like proprietary software that is
>> large on the  return on investment ratios  and then light concern
>> elsewhere. This is also where labor is considered to be simply a commodity
>> and having no conception or concern that economies tend to be demand side
>> driven, not by the supply side.
>>
>> Pay no attention to the suits behind the corporate curtain.
>>
>>
>> Tadit Anderson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, 16 Sep 2011 07:18:28 -0400, robert searle <dharao4 at yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >  I do not know whether the following will be of use......personally, I
>> > do not have alot of respect for economists but unfortunately they still
>> > have great influence in society, politics, and banking
>> >  http://ideas.repec.org/coupe.html
>> >
>> http://www.superscholar.org/features/20-most-influential-living-economists/
>> >
>> >
>> http://www.blupete.com/Literature/Biographies/Philosophy/BiosEcon.htm#top
>> >
>> >  RS.
>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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-- 
Sandwichman
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