[P2P-F] blog FEASTA/MMT/....

Sat Sep 10 18:08:47 CEST 2011

It was a blond woman from the uni of missouri and she seemed quite smart and
central to the core group ..

My question was very clear asking to confirm whether they really believed
that lower taxation directly related to higher economic activity and vice
versa ..

As for Robert remarks on backward thinking ... you can't compare the
description of an ideal utopian system, with little chance of being
implemented in the near future, with the classic debates on the good use of
taxation .. that's called 'current thinking' ...

Within the current context and power relations, progressive taxation and
productive public investment would still be miles ahead of current
neoliberal austerisizing

On Sat, Sep 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:

> Michael, I assure that that depiction of MMT is not accurate at all. If
> you have a link to some of that discussion, I can be more specific. The
> summary was actually radically wrong relative to MMT and functional fiscal
> policies. Taxation at this point is primarily a means of controlling the
> accumulation of wealth withing specific income groups, and of course
> accelerating the incomes for other economic profiles. It has no bearing on
> funding fiscal policies at all. The FEASTA people have been generally
> fairly good relative to the rest of the folks promoting community
> currencies, and that can be misleading because the level of economic
> literacy among community currency advocates is generally very low, which
> makes it usually a zone the less well informed promote economic
> illiteracy. If I had a name of one of the presenters or a name of the
> association or?, I could trace back to the people at the Univ. of Missouri
> at Kansas City to see who those people were. From what you have described
> someone or some group seems to be promoting dys-information. This a long
> term pattern whereby pop-level "economics" speaker are used to confuse any
> discourse or interest toward monetary reform. Perhaps MMT in a nutshell
> would be useful topic. I've done a two flyer set on a presentation of MMT.
>
> The first flyer is at http://www.economics.arawakcity.org/node/674
>
> The second flyer is at http://www.economics.arawakcity.org/node/675
>
> I could digest this down to even simpler terms and a shorter length.
>
> and so we meander, Tadit Anderson
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 03:33:08 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
>
> > hi Tadit,
> >
> > I checked your work through Google ... interesting!
> >
> > you may want to answer this, perhaps a misunderstanding of MMT on my part
> > ...
> >
> > earlier this year, I attented a Modern Monetary Theory lecture in Dublin,
> > after some enthusiastic promptings of FEASTA members ..
> >
> > however, I came out less than enthusiastic ..
> >
> > the reason is the following, one of the ladies who gave the lecture,
> > gave an
> > intro with the main principles of MMT, and one of the rules sounds really
> > simplistic supply-side to me
> >
> > she said, lower taxes, and the economy grows, higher taxes, and the
> > economy
> > slows down ...
> >
> > Disbelieving I asked a question on this, and she confirmed, and this
> > pretty
> > much discredits MMT for me,
> >
> > Michel
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 6:27 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
> >
> >> Michael, this is the link to Bill Mitchell's Billy Blog site and the
> >> first
> >> segment of 7 in total.
> >>
> >> http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=6122
> >>
> >>  Mitchell is one of the top authorities on modern monetary economics
> >> which
> >> is the discourse which has applied what was learned from legitimate
> >> interpretations of Keynes and of the demand side economics of the WPA,
> >> CCC, and NYA as progressive (U.S.) responses to the 20th century Great
> >> Depression. Mitchell covers a list of "progressive" nominal
> >> economists/establishments in the successive entries. L. Randall Wray of
> >> the Univ. of Missouri Kansas City Econ. Dept has made similar statements
> >> which would take me a bit longer to produce. The core difference is
> >> between the economic assumptions being applied. The New Economic
> >> Perspectives from Kansas City blog has a treasure trove of resources
> >> both
> >> in the current primer review and of other stand alone materials. It may
> >> require a bit of translation. Mitchell is at the top of his class in
> >> terms
> >> of modern monetary economics and as a perspective it has been one of the
> >> few opposing perspectives relative the well funded deficit terrorism
> >> campaigns. Some of the material may seem counter-intuitive, and it is
> >> based upon in part how central banking actually operates currently, only
> >> how those principles can serve a more public and more social agenda. The
> >> counter-intuitive part derives from the neo-classical framing which has
> >> dominated the field for decades if not longer. Ie, by its familiarity,
> >> the
> >> neo-classical framing seems correct when it is not actually, and serves
> >> to
> >> contain genuine progressive initiatives within a neo-classical box of
> >> assumptions. On a related topic, what is known as Jevons's Paradox is
> >> often applied within ecological and environmental circles to "prove" the
> >> futility of progressive energy measures and energy efficient technology,
> >> ends up being paradoxical only within the neo-classical set of
> >> assumptions.
> >>
> >> as we go, Tadit
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 06:49:51 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> >> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > thanks, do you have a link to the baker critique you mention below?
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM, <ideasinc at ee.net> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Y'all, Baker tends to have a reputation of being strong on the
> >> rhetoric
> >> >> but very weak on the actual economics side of his material. It has
> >> been
> >> >> demonstrated that his economic assumptions are neo-liberal in their
> >> >> substance. Though this might be an interesting foray at one level, if
> >> >> done
> >> >> in a less than serious fashion it is likely to promote economic
> >> >> illiteracy. This may seem harsh, and buying into the
> >> >> neo-liberal/neo-classical framing of our situation cuts off even
> >> >> imagining
> >> >> informed fiscal options. I come from primarily a post-Keynesian
> >> >> macro-economics and functional finance perspective, and this sits
> >> well
> >> >> with my 20 plus years of being active in community centered economic
> >> >> activism, from entrepreneurship development, to being treasurer of
> >> two
> >> >> different cooperatives, to being downstream of fraud perpetrated
> >> under a
> >> >> false flag of left "progressiv-ism," and other investments regarding.
> >> >> Just
> >> >> finished a series of essays by Bill Mitchell which included a
> >> critique
> >> >> of
> >> >> Dean Baker's economics, entitled "With Friends, Like These..."
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Tadit Anderson, Re-Imagining Economics
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, 07 Sep 2011 01:50:04 -0400, Michel Bauwens
> >> >> <michel at p2pfoundation.net> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >>
> http://deanbaker.net/images/stories/documents/End-of-Loser-Liberalism.pdf
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hi Kevin, perhaps you'd find chapter 10 interesting, and even
> >> chapter
> >> >> 11,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > commentary always appreciated if you have time,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Michel
> >> >>
> >> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
> >>
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>
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