[P2P-F] Libertarians

Wed Oct 19 15:06:27 CEST 2011

Read history-Most of the deaths were from disease. That native didn't have 
immunity can't be blamed on Europeans. Alcoholism is tied to generic 
differences in metabolism. The processing of sugars is different in peoples 
who were nomadic-didn't eat regularly and had a high protein diet. The 
actual conflicts that caused hostile actions were economic and trade 
related-and manipulated from England then Washington. BTW I have travelled 
extensively-including to many tribal lands.

-----Original Message----- 
From: Mark Janssen
Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 9:08 PM
To: P2P Foundation mailing list
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Libertarians

On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Natalie Golovin <10natalie at cox.net> wrote:
> And please stop romanticizing native peoples. At the time-all the
> tribes-including the invading European ones- engaged in shifting alliances 
> &
> schemes to enrich their communities. The Europeans had better weapons. And
> since no one "owned" all that available land, and many of the tribes were
> nomadic-What right (Re: a previous mail) did the natives have to dominate
> it?

Sorry, I feel I have to step in and clear up this illusion that
somehow we're "romanticizing" the native peoples.  It is not fucking
"romantic" just because one doesn't want to be the genocidal
benefactor of 12 million deaths.  IS it?  Is that how you want to
define the basis of the wealth of the Nation?  That you're prosperous
because you've built up an empire standing on top of 12 million,
mostly innocent people, living on their ancient, ancestral lands as
they had for thousands of years before we invaded it.  Go fucking
visit a reservation in northern nebraska and see the people that
suffer to this day, unable to "cure" their alcoholism because their
spirit and grand relationship to the cosmos has been broken simply
because you had a fucking gun.

Pardon me, sorry for any friendly-fire..

marcos

The invaders came from crowded cities and were "homesteading."
> We're not getting anywhere with this dialogue-Why not switch gears to
> attacking CEO's & enabling bureaucrats & politicians-where we have 
> "common"
> ground?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kevin Carson
> Sent: Tuesday, October 18, 2011 7:48 PM
> To: P2P Foundation mailing list
> Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Libertarians
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:42 PM, Natalie Golovin <10natalie at cox.net> 
> wrote:
>> Convoluted  I’m a human citizen of the US which through its Constitution
>> grants its citizens a certain set of rights & privileges. It has 3
>> branches-Executive, Legislative & Judicial and a border that is
>>  “generally”
>> respected and would be defended militarily if aggressively attacked. I
>> consider myself fortunate to be a citizen of a country that confers human
>> rights on its citizens- a rare thing. A human without a nation has no
>> rights-privileges or security.
>
> I believe I have my rights by nature of my birth as a human being, not
> as a result of their being "granted" or "conferred" by any government.
> The U.S. government, at most, recognizes -- or rather, pays lip
> service -- to these rights.
>
> And the wording of the Bill of Rights itself refers to "persons," not
> citizens, and has been widely understood since the beginning to
> require due process of law for all persons residing under the state's
> jurisdiction.
> --
> Kevin Carson
> Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org
> Homebrew Industrial Revolution:  A Low-Overhead Manifesto
> http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com
> Desktop Regulatory State:  The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered
> Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com
> Organization Theory:  A Libertarian Perspective
> http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html
>
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