[P2P-F] Declaration_of_the_Occupation_of_New_York_City

Mon Oct 3 05:01:52 CEST 2011

>From what general assembly? Did everyone on the streets have a chance to vote?-Who decided at what point in time a vote should be taken?  Are we talking about the same protests? I donated to Occupy Wall Street and do feel a responsibility, but think the entire uprising would be harmed if it became hijacked by one subgroup-especially so early in the process.

From: Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis 
Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:37 PM
To: P2P Foundation mailing list 
Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Declaration_of_the_Occupation_of_New_York_City

This is a document accepted by the general assemply. One is not responsible for what is but what he does to change things . Since, I assume, there is a democratic process in the assemply, it would be more fruitfull to try to participate than condemn it. It would also be usefull to answer what is the responsibility of your group, party in this turn of events. I have seen too many condemning the people for being stupid and ignorant instead of looking for their responsibility. In fact , a libertarian friend of mine had the same attitude toward the greek movement because the libertarian ideas were not accepted. 

Just saying...

2011/10/2 Natalie Golovin <10natalie at cox.net>

  Reich was the darling of "soft" academia in the 60's. I find him irrelevant
  as well as unappealing. My preference is the recent and pragmatic Eric
  Hoffer- a man of the people. The totalitarian left has murdered more, and
  caused far more economic despair than the Fascist right. Dictators demand
  unitary power/control to engineer/impose their egotistical world-views.
  Fascist corporatism has many more voices and simpler motives. My "take" on
  Libertarianism is that it couldn't be a mask for its own gain- because there
  are no real leaders-no central authority. We ask for a limited, intelligent
  and competent political structure that will act as honest watch-dog,
  moderator, umpire, referee- to negotiate competing demands in a free-market
  society. The rewriting of the Interstate Commerce Clause helped removed govt
  from local democratic control. Abuses contributing to the current crisis
  have been the result of collusion among global corporate and political
  leaders with the eager assistance of an unethical financial community.
  From: ideasinc at ee.net
  Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 9:47 AM
  To: P2P Foundation mailing list
  Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Declaration_of_the_Occupation_of_New_York_City

  Natalie,
  Wilhelm Reich wrote an excellent book, that generally is ignored. The
  title is the "Mass Psychology of Fascism." it is based upon his direct
  experience of the rise of Nazi fascism in Germany and of his direct
  contact with Stalinist communists which he also describes as a form of
  fascism. Then there are the various degrees of totalitarianism. Both are
  very similar by the enforced conformity to authority. "Libertarianism" as
  a concept has also been used to provide an acceptable appearance for other
  forms of authoritarianism, most notably the siege against small "d"
  democracy and the role of governance to protect and preserve the commons
  in its many forms. The Libertarian Party in the US has been gathering
  point for nominal conservatives who operate to diminish the commons in
  multiple contexts. Sticking to the outcomes and objectives as would be
  expected in a democratic process does seem like a better way to define and
  sustain an open process. Yes, there is a substantial potential problems
  when appearance and labels are accepted as either adequate or applicable.
  In short you, imo, are quite correct in being suspicious of labeling as
  basis for political correctness.

  Tadit

  On Sun, 02 Oct 2011 12:19:19 -0400, Natalie Golovin <10natalie at cox.net>
  wrote:

  > Declaration will cause movement to lose a lot of support. You may say
  > you don’t care about Libertarians anyway-not very democratic attitude.
  > When the Left gets going it’s more frightening than the Corporatocracy
  >
  > From: Michel Bauwens
  > Sent: Sunday, October 02, 2011 12:14 AM
  > To: p2p-foundation
  > Cc: Amaia Arcos
  > Subject: [P2P-F] Declaration_of_the_Occupation_of_New_York_City
  >
  > http://p2pfoundation.net/Declaration_of_the_Occupation_of_New_York_City
  >
  > Dear Amaia, can you publish this on our blog?
  >
  > Michel

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-- 

Sincerely yours,      Apostolis Xekoukoulotakis

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