[P2P-F] must watch on future of internet: who agrees ?

[Michel Bauwens]

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:53 PM, mp <mp at aktivix.org> wrote:

>
>
> On 21/11/11 08:00, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> > this is an old and recurring discussion, and a charge I disagree with ..
> .I
> > participated in different free culture forums, except the last one, and
> the
> > debates around the material basis of free culture were actually the most
> > sophisticated i have witnessed anywhere ... I think the free culture =
> > loves only cyberspace is mostly a strawman ... material infrastructures,
> > business and sustainability models for creators, and ownership issues
> were
> > at the core of the discussions ..
>
> .. now that might be the case, but this sophisticated debate is
> nevertheless missing from the Free Culture Forum's declaration "Models
> for Sustainable Creativity", as far as I can tell. It's been quite a
> while since I read it, but I just searched through it again and:
>
> Search for "labor" or "labour" or "environment" in the declaration and
> no hits. Search for "material" and what you find is the seemingly
> accepting statement that "free culture" is in fact a free labour factory:
>
> "The providers of commercial platforms for cooperation share their
> revenues with the creators who produce the material that makes their
> services valuable, while commoners are able to freely share and exploit
> the commons."
>

i'm surprised to find this paragraph; perhaps this was formulated as a
wish. In another place, as i recall, the FC Forum asked for a 15%
contribution from the platform to the creative community, as a minimum
contribution to the commons.

>
> Search for "ownership", or "property": no hits.
>
> So maybe very sophisticated in theoretical debate, but rather silent in
> practice.
>
> > some people seem to believe that the recognition of emergent properties
> > means a denial of other and sustaining layers, but it is not, it is a
> > necessary differntiation, but it has to be seen in its relation and
> > embeddedness to material infrastructures
>
> This is not a correct representation. It is not that "recognition of
> emergent properties" equals denial, but that building a philosophical
> framework and political realities on the emergent properties *only* -
> and not including the material basis in the context of the organisation
> of those "emergent properties" - in the form of "Creative Commons" and
> "Copyleft" and so on is problematic and misleading: it not only obscures
> the material basis, but in fact celebrates its hidden nature.
>

I agree. both are needed.


>
> Anyway, just leave at this. No interest in discussing this again. The
> consequences are, as it were, materialising gradually in any case.
> That's what the monetisation is all about.
>
> m
>
> >> On 20/11/11 17:58, Michel Bauwens wrote:
> >>> I don't think it matters directly .. but it is definitely a silicon
> >> valley
> >>> tech investor mentality, intend on re-introducing monetization of
> >>> everything on the internet and he's confident they will succeed ...
> >>
> >> .... and the monetization is particularly possible because of the
> >> material aspects of the internet combined with ownership relations,
> >> which is why it is philosophically problematic and politically
> >> disempowering, I think, that the "free culture" movement perpetuates the
> >> "immaterial myth", by contrasting cyberspace to "real space" and on that
> >> basis arguing for exceptions in cyberspace. One step forward and two
> >> steps back.
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> --
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>
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