<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 8:53 PM, mp <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mp@aktivix.org">mp@aktivix.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="im"><br>
<br>
On 21/11/11 08:00, Michel Bauwens wrote:<br>
> this is an old and recurring discussion, and a charge I disagree with .. .I<br>
> participated in different free culture forums, except the last one, and the<br>
> debates around the material basis of free culture were actually the most<br>
> sophisticated i have witnessed anywhere ... I think the free culture =<br>
> loves only cyberspace is mostly a strawman ... material infrastructures,<br>
> business and sustainability models for creators, and ownership issues were<br>
> at the core of the discussions ..<br>
<br>
</div>.. now that might be the case, but this sophisticated debate is<br>
nevertheless missing from the Free Culture Forum's declaration "Models<br>
for Sustainable Creativity", as far as I can tell. It's been quite a<br>
while since I read it, but I just searched through it again and:<br>
<br>
Search for "labor" or "labour" or "environment" in the declaration and<br>
no hits. Search for "material" and what you find is the seemingly<br>
accepting statement that "free culture" is in fact a free labour factory:<br>
<br>
"The providers of commercial platforms for cooperation share their<br>
revenues with the creators who produce the material that makes their<br>
services valuable, while commoners are able to freely share and exploit<br>
the commons."<br></blockquote><div><br>i'm surprised to find this paragraph; perhaps this was formulated as a wish. In another place, as i recall, the FC Forum asked for a 15% contribution from the platform to the creative community, as a minimum contribution to the commons. <br>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Search for "ownership", or "property": no hits.<br>
<br>
So maybe very sophisticated in theoretical debate, but rather silent in<br>
practice.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> some people seem to believe that the recognition of emergent properties<br>
> means a denial of other and sustaining layers, but it is not, it is a<br>
> necessary differntiation, but it has to be seen in its relation and<br>
> embeddedness to material infrastructures<br>
<br>
</div>This is not a correct representation. It is not that "recognition of<br>
emergent properties" equals denial, but that building a philosophical<br>
framework and political realities on the emergent properties *only* -<br>
and not including the material basis in the context of the organisation<br>
of those "emergent properties" - in the form of "Creative Commons" and<br>
"Copyleft" and so on is problematic and misleading: it not only obscures<br>
the material basis, but in fact celebrates its hidden nature.<br></blockquote><div><br>I agree. both are needed.<br>�<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
Anyway, just leave at this. No interest in discussing this again. The<br>
consequences are, as it were, materialising gradually in any case.<br>
That's what the monetisation is all about.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
m<br>
<br>
>> On 20/11/11 17:58, Michel Bauwens wrote:<br>
>>> I don't think it matters directly .. but it is definitely a silicon<br>
>> valley<br>
>>> tech investor mentality, intend on re-introducing monetization of<br>
>>> everything on the internet and he's confident they will succeed ...<br>
>><br>
>> .... and the monetization is particularly possible because of the<br>
>> material aspects of the internet combined with ownership relations,<br>
>> which is why it is philosophically problematic and politically<br>
>> disempowering, I think, that the "free culture" movement perpetuates the<br>
>> "immaterial myth", by contrasting cyberspace to "real space" and on that<br>
>> basis arguing for exceptions in cyberspace. One step forward and two<br>
>> steps back.<br>
>><br>
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</div>NOT sent from a flippin' "smart"phone - 'cause I like birds...<br>
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