[P2P-F] [P2P-URBANISM WA] Any of you use map layering for p2p urbanism open collaboration projects ?

Thu Jan 20 04:46:53 CET 2011

Just a question to this crowd of urban experts.

I once read that Chinese cities used to produce 60% of their food
requirements within or just around their city walls. Does anyone have a
reference for this.

A remark on ruralization. I don't think we should empty out the cities, but
nevertheless, a new balance may be necessary. As I see it, people leave
rural areas for two main reasons, one is they have to for reasons of
economic survival, as capitalist dynamics destroy their livelyhoods; but the
other one is cultural: many young people, leave rural areas for cultural
reasons, they see no dynamic future in their static and isolated rural
areas. Here is where the Global Villages strategy of Franz Nahrada comes in,
the use digital connectivity, empowerement and peer learning to de-isolate
the rural. I can take my own life as an example, I can be a throught leader
from a provincial city in the forests of northern thailand, a place which
two generations ago was still three days travel from the capital city, but
is now connected through global satellites and broadband internet, and I
feel hardly any sense of isolation anymore. Of course, I have the cultural
capital to use these tools, which many still lack, but these are not
insurmountable problems. Just want to say, it's not either-or, rural or
urban, but a mix, and my guess is that the relocalization you call for, and
a return to say organic sustainable agriculture, will require a more labour
intensive rural area. I've read, again I forgot where, that a sustainable
world would perhaps require a return to a rural population of about 20%.

Michel

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:58 AM, MIGUEL ALOYSIO SATTLER <masattler at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Michael,
>
> I actually share with you the idea of "*a Sim-city kind of approach*"
> would be very helpful in providing us with some of the necessary answers.
> And, yes, as you probably guessed, I am one among those in favor of a
> re-ruralization of our habitat. For nothing else than for our own survival.
> And that, in line with the Green Fingers of Alexander or the Future *Neothecnic
> *Cities of John Lyle. On the one hand we (not only some privileged people,
> even less the whole humanity) cannot afford continue having a 5000 miles
> Cesar Salad. On the other hand, the slavery of food production, the
> exploitation of those producing our food has to finish... Bringing these
> food producers closer to urban spaces, as put by Alexander in the
> patterns, would offer them the possibility of sharing the benefits of the
> cities (health care, education, leisure, ...) at the same time that the
> productive land would absorb what we consider as being our wastes (that,
> actually, are resources). To do that we have, already for a long time, the
> adequate technologies (energy generation from biodigestion, composting,
> ...).
>  Different sources indicate that (at least in Europe) each person would
> require 40m2 as one´s roof (in Brazil, we might have 8 people living in same
> space), a share of 400m2 in urban space, but 4000m2 of productive space to
> suply the minimum required food necessities - this in a Brazilian food
> diet for low income people (some say 2000m2, in a diet without meat and
> grains). I am sure that this statement would annoy Jane Jacobs, as will
> certainly do with her followers... How to find a solution for all these
> requirements? I suggest to my students that we should start developing a
> sustainability version of Sim-city, that also, following the same approach
> adopted by Wil Wright, would also be based on Pattern Language. Certainly
> that would require much more effort and time (and money), than that of 10
> PhD thesis...
>
> Regards,
>
> Miguel
> ,
> 2010/12/28 Michael Mehaffy <michael.mehaffy at gmail.com>
>
>> Hello Dante,
>>
>> Many communities use a Geographic Information System (GIS) and these are
>> often available to the public, either on-line, or with downloadable data, or
>> both. They are typically layered so it's possible to add one or more layers
>> - depending on the software you use to view it (this varies depending on the
>> system).
>>
>> In New Orleans however, we proposed to bypass the usual GIS system and use
>> a Google Earth "mashup" (which allows you to create custom data from other
>> programs and mesh it with the maps).  That way we felt that anyone could use
>> the resulting system and add their data.  We had computer people on the team
>> so I am not able to give you the technical details - but someone more
>> skilled in mashups can probably give you enough to go on.  As with a lot of
>> this technology, I think once you get the basics, the most important thing
>> is just to play with it and learn!
>>
>> Another option that we need to explore, I think, is using generative
>> procedures t create forms collaboratively.  In principle this could be done
>> with SketchUp and Google Earth, but a) creating the structures requires
>> expertise, and b) those with expertise - architects - are generally not good
>> enough at facilitating the collaboration of others.  Too much top-down
>> approach, usually...  Hence this effort...
>>
>> We might explore other models, like a Sim-city kind of approach, based on
>> patterns (in fact the game was based on Pattern Language in the first place,
>> according to Wil Wright).  But this would take a lot of time, and very
>> likely, money!  So we need shortcuts...
>>
>> Cheers, m
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <
>> dante.monson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi to all on this list,
>>>
>>> I want to put forward and ask some technical questions which I believe
>>> are pretty practical,
>>> to facilitate collaboration for citizen participation in city
>>> (re)development.
>>>
>>> It involves map layerings,
>>> and I wondered if some of you may be aware
>>> of certain tools I may not be aware of yet, so I could use them ?
>>>
>>> Or if they do not exist, how difficult would it be to create them ?
>>>
>>> My background is that of a netroots hitch hiking nomad who is interested
>>> in setting up some physical resilient living space base.
>>>
>>> Here goes for the question / suggestion :
>>>
>>> The starting point is a personal project which I choose to be in Leipzig,
>>> Germany.
>>> There are vacant buildings ( about one fifth of all buildings ? ),
>>> which makes some of these buildings more affordable then other cities.
>>> Hence, I'd like to use it as an experimental space to set up a local
>>> network economy,
>>> with not for loss/not for financial profit/use value
>>> and p2p cooperative principles, building up on peer property, governance
>>> and production.
>>>
>>> The is one of the wiki pages me and some other friends use to brainstorm
>>> :
>>>
>>> http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project
>>>
>>> Enough friends offered to buy shares as to guarantee the purchase of a
>>> first building.
>>> Now, the challenge is to be able to *use all data and , based on needs
>>> for projects, select the ideal area and choose the ideal first building to
>>> start the project.*
>>>
>>>   Now that Google Street View is available for some cities in germany,
>>> such as Berlin or Leipzig, it also makes it easier to show to potential
>>> investors , and further increase participation online.
>>>
>>> I wondered how difficult it would be to* enable automatic KML layering*,
>>> after doing a specific research, such as buildings in Leipzig ( according
>>> to price or size criteria for example ) from data such as
>>>
>>> http://lwb-immobilienangebote.de/index.php/objekte/suchen
>>>
>>> ( a company that inherited from the formaly east german housing
>>> cooperative )
>>>
>>> This would be very useful, to choose, then view directly with Google
>>> Street View, buildings of interest for me and friends to invest in, while
>>> collaboratively compiling important data about the buildings, the
>>> neighbourhood,
>>>
>>> by eventually enabling additional connections to every points on the
>>> layer for open comments or linking to wiki pages ?
>>>
>>> Enabling each point on a KML layering to have some kind of URI ?
>>> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language ;
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier )
>>>
>>> Or even enabler social networks ( people login from facebook, or enable a
>>> direct link map that can be added to identica and twitter, and serve as a
>>> tag for other interested twitter users... ? )
>>>
>>> Hence enabling emergent collaboration for the redelopment of a city ?
>>>
>>> Perhaps also a layer for open street map ? ( if that exists ? )
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page
>>>
>>> I do know about wikimapia which enables adding specific data about places
>>> http://wikimapia.org
>>>
>>> but I am not sure such tool is ideal when it comes to specific projects /
>>> our own project layers,
>>> or for enabling the superposition of various layers extracted based on
>>> specific researches.
>>>
>>> Perhaps also that Open Layers could be of use ( although I do not know
>>> much about it )
>>> http://openlayers.org/ ?
>>>
>>> I also know that one can create ones own maps on google maps,
>>> which could be one way to go.
>>>
>>> In that case, how to enable automated access to databases directly
>>> represented on the maps ?
>>>
>>> Then finally, how to make such databases, from private companies and from
>>> governmental organizations alike, directly available on maps.
>>> ( including access such as water grid information, public transportation
>>> data, electricity, gas, fiber optic internet grid data... ? - latest dates
>>> for construction works, or planned construction works, ... - or data
>>> regarding the condition of the houses, legal information , size of
>>> buildings, fire department information, possibly even demographics , ... )
>>>
>>> Hence on one hand, a political aspect of making such information
>>> accessible,
>>> and on the other, technical solutions, to enable layering of information
>>> layers on maps,
>>> and finally uniform resource identifiers ( URI ) which can be used and
>>> connected to profiles, or as links on blogs and micro-blogging tools,
>>> as to further enable emergent collaboration ?
>>>
>>> Does any of you work on this,
>>> or does any of you know of some answers going in this direction ?
>>> Does any of you use such tools ?
>>>
>>> I do understand this may be a booming field.
>>> I remember watching this video :
>>>
>>> http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_images.jsp?cntn_id=118063&org=NSF
>>>
>>> Perhaps I missed some mails on this list that mentioned such ideas,
>>> as I notice the title of this list is
>>>
>>> "p2p-urbanism-world-atlas"
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Dante
>>> http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante
>>>
>>>
>>> --
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Michael Mehaffy
>> 333 S. State Street, Suite V-440
>> Lake Oswego, OR 97034
>> www.tectics.com
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Prof. Miguel Aloysio Sattler, PhD
> Depto. de Engenharia Civil/NORIE
> UFRGS
>
> --
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> to register to the group
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>

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