Just a question to this crowd of urban experts.<br><br>I once read that Chinese cities used to produce 60% of their food requirements within or just around their city walls. Does anyone have a reference for this.<br><br>A remark on ruralization. I don't think we should empty out the cities, but nevertheless, a new balance may be necessary. As I see it, people leave rural areas for two main reasons, one is they have to for reasons of economic survival, as capitalist dynamics destroy their livelyhoods; but the other one is cultural: many young people, leave rural areas for cultural reasons, they see no dynamic future in their static and isolated rural areas. Here is where the Global Villages strategy of Franz Nahrada comes in, the use digital connectivity, empowerement and peer learning to de-isolate th<span id=":5cj" class="hP"></span>e rural. I can take my own life as an example, I can be a throught leader from a provincial city in the forests of northern thailand, a place which two generations ago was still three days travel from the capital city, but is now connected through global satellites and broadband internet, and I feel hardly any sense of isolation anymore. Of course, I have the cultural capital to use these tools, which many still lack, but these are not insurmountable problems. Just want to say, it's not either-or, rural or urban, but a mix, and my guess is that the relocalization you call for, and a return to say organic sustainable agriculture, will require a more labour intensive rural area. I've read, again I forgot where, that a sustainable world would perhaps require a return to a rural population of about 20%.<br>
<br>Michel<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 5:58 AM, MIGUEL ALOYSIO SATTLER <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:masattler@gmail.com">masattler@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>Michael,</div>
<div>�</div>
<div>I actually share with you the idea of "<b>a Sim-city kind of approach</b>" would be very helpful in providing us with some of the necessary answers. And, yes, as you probably�guessed, I am one among those in favor of a re-ruralization of our habitat. For nothing else than for our own survival. And that, in line with the Green Fingers of Alexander or the Future <b>Neothecnic </b>Cities of John Lyle. On the one hand we�(not only�some privileged people, even less the whole humanity)�cannot afford continue having a 5000 miles Cesar Salad. On the other hand, the slavery of food production, the exploitation of those producing our food has to finish... Bringing these food producers closer to urban spaces, as put by Alexander in the patterns,�would offer them the possibility of sharing the benefits of the cities (health care, education, leisure,�...) at the same time that�the productive�land would absorb what we consider as being our wastes (that, actually, are resources). To do that we have, already for a long time,�the adequate�technologies (energy generation from biodigestion, composting, ...).<br>
</div>
<div>Different sources indicate that (at least in Europe) each person would require 40m2 as one�s roof (in Brazil, we might have 8 people living in same space), a share of 400m2 in urban space, but 4000m2 of productive space�to suply�the minimum required�food necessities - this�in a�Brazilian food diet�for low income people�(some say 2000m2,�in a diet without�meat and grains). I am sure that this�statement would annoy Jane Jacobs, as will certainly�do with her followers... How to find a solution for all these requirements? I suggest to my students that we should start developing a sustainability version of Sim-city, that also, following the same approach adopted by Wil Wright, would also be based on Pattern Language. Certainly that would require much more effort and time (and money), than that of 10 PhD thesis...</div>
<div>�</div>
<div>Regards,</div>
<div>�</div>
<div>Miguel<br>, </div>
<div class="gmail_quote">2010/12/28 Michael Mehaffy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael.mehaffy@gmail.com" target="_blank">michael.mehaffy@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Hello Dante,
<div><br></div>
<div>Many communities use a Geographic Information System (GIS) and these are often available to the public, either on-line, or with downloadable data, or both. They are typically layered so it's possible to add one or more layers - depending on the software you use to view it (this varies depending on the system). �</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In New Orleans however, we proposed to bypass the usual GIS system and use a Google Earth "mashup" (which allows you to create custom data from other programs and mesh it with the maps). �That way we felt that anyone could use the resulting system and add their data. �We had computer people on the team so I am not able to give you the technical details - but someone more skilled in mashups can probably give you enough to go on. �As with a lot of this technology, I think once you get the basics, the most important thing is just to play with it and learn!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Another option that we need to explore, I think, is using generative procedures t create forms collaboratively. �In principle this could be done with SketchUp and Google Earth, but a) creating the structures requires expertise, and b) those with expertise - architects - are generally not good enough at facilitating the collaboration of others. �Too much top-down approach, usually... �Hence this effort...</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>We might explore other models, like a Sim-city kind of approach, based on patterns (in fact the game was based on Pattern Language in the first place, according to Wil Wright). �But this would take a lot of time, and very likely, money! �So we need shortcuts...</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Cheers, m�
<div>
<div></div>
<div><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 3:58 AM, Dante-Gabryell Monson <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dante.monson@gmail.com" target="_blank">dante.monson@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;" class="gmail_quote">Hi to all on this list,
<div><br></div>
<div>I want to put forward and ask some technical questions which I believe are pretty practical,</div>
<div>to facilitate collaboration�for citizen participation in city (re)development.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>It involves map layerings,</div>
<div>and I wondered if some of you may be aware</div>
<div>of certain tools I may not be aware of yet, so I could use them ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Or if they do not exist, how difficult would it be to create them ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>My background is that of a netroots hitch hiking nomad who is interested in setting up some physical resilient living space base.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Here goes for the question / suggestion :</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The starting point is a personal project which I choose to be in Leipzig, Germany.</div>
<div>There are vacant buildings ( about one fifth of all buildings ? ),</div>
<div>which makes some of these buildings more affordable then other cities.</div>
<div>Hence, I'd like to use it as an experimental space to set up a local network economy,</div>
<div>with not for loss/not for financial profit/use value</div>
<div>and p2p cooperative principles, building up on peer property, governance and production.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The is one of the wiki pages me and some other friends use to brainstorm :</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><a href="http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project" target="_blank">http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Enough friends offered to buy shares as to guarantee the purchase of a first building.</div>
<div>Now, the challenge is to be able to <b><u>use all data and , based on needs for projects, select the ideal area and choose the ideal first building to start the project.</u></b></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>
<div>Now that Google Street View is available for some cities in germany, such as Berlin or Leipzig, it also makes it easier to show to potential investors , and further increase participation online.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I wondered how difficult it would be to<i><b> enable automatic KML layering</b></i>,</div>
<div>after doing a specific research, such as buildings in Leipzig ( according to price or size criteria for example ) from data such as</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><a href="http://lwb-immobilienangebote.de/index.php/objekte/suchen" target="_blank">http://lwb-immobilienangebote.de/index.php/objekte/suchen</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>( a company that inherited from the formaly east german housing cooperative )</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>This would be very useful, to choose, then view directly with Google Street View, buildings of interest for me and friends to invest in, while collaboratively compiling important data about the buildings, the neighbourhood,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>by�eventually enabling additional connections to every points on the layer for open comments or linking to wiki pages ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Enabling each point on a KML layering to have some kind of URI ?</div>
<div>(�<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyhole_Markup_Language</a>�;�<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Resource_Identifier</a>�)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Or even enabler social networks ( people login from facebook, or enable a direct link map that can be added to identica and twitter,�and serve as a tag for other interested twitter users... ? )</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hence enabling emergent collaboration for the redelopment of a city ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Perhaps also a layer for open street map ? ( if that exists ? )</div>
<div><a href="http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page" target="_blank">http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Main_Page</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I do know about wikimapia which enables adding specific data about places</div>
<div><a href="http://wikimapia.org/" target="_blank">http://wikimapia.org</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>but I am not sure such tool is ideal when it comes to specific projects / our own project layers,</div>
<div>or for enabling the superposition of various layers extracted based on specific researches.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Perhaps also that Open Layers could be of use ( although I do not know much about it )</div>
<div><a href="http://openlayers.org/" target="_blank">http://openlayers.org/</a>�?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I also know that one can create ones own maps on google maps,</div>
<div>which could be one way to go.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>In that case, how to enable automated access to databases directly represented on the maps ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Then finally, how to make such databases, from private companies and from governmental organizations alike, directly available on maps.</div>
<div>( including access such as water grid information, public transportation data, electricity, gas,�fiber�optic internet grid data... ? - latest dates for construction works, or planned construction works, ... - or data regarding the condition of the houses, legal information , size of buildings, fire department information, possibly even demographics , ... )</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hence on one hand, a political aspect of making such information accessible,</div>
<div>and on the other, technical solutions, to enable layering of information layers on maps,</div>
<div>and finally uniform resource identifiers ( URI ) which can be used and connected to profiles, or as links on blogs and�micro-blogging�tools,</div>
<div>as to further enable emergent collaboration ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Does any of you work on this,</div>
<div>or does any of you know of some answers going in this direction ?</div>
<div>Does any of you use such tools ?</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>I do understand this may be a booming field.</div>
<div>I remember watching this video :</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><a href="http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_images.jsp?cntn_id=118063&org=NSF" target="_blank">http://www.nsf.gov/news/news_images.jsp?cntn_id=118063&org=NSF</a></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Perhaps I missed some mails on this list that�mentioned�such ideas,</div>
<div>as I notice the title of this list is�</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>"p2p-urbanism-world-atlas"</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Thanks!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dante</div>
<div><a href="http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante" target="_blank">http://hitchwiki.org/en/Dante</a></div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div><br></div>
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