[P2P-F] Please help me understand who are "investors?"

Wed Dec 14 20:43:04 CET 2011

Than you to everyone who responded...... This leaves us with fend for ourselves building resilliant communities it looks like to me.

Hat tip John Robb
On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:05 AM, Denis Postle wrote:

> Gordon, I have had a similar reaction to the constant references in the media to how 'the markets' ie investors, will see actions by  financial institutions and sovereign governments.
> 
> Here is an analogy, see if it runs: if, as I tend to assert, capitalism is the dominant spirituality of our times, this makes the the markets into some kind of 'heaven' inhabited by 'investment gods' who influence everything we do but nowhere to be seen. When, through their 'angels', eg rating agencies, the IMF etc, the gods bring bad power weather and compound interest strikes, action has to be taken to appease the gods, 'sacrifices' are identified and offered. However, the power weather continues unabated.
> 
> Extricating ourselves from the grip of capitalist spirituality is likely just as difficult as it was for western religionists three centuries ago to extricate themselves from a universal belief in a domineering god who knew everything and was everywhere and whose agents required sacrifices when sin was detected. 
> 
> Denis
> 
> On 13/12/2011 21:38, Gordon Cook wrote:
>> 
>> Every day the mainstream press relates how "investors": have driven up or down the price of European sovereign debt and other bonds and commodities.
>> 
>>  Could it be that with the deregulation of the financial sector we really have no idea from these bastards actually are? certainly hedge funds are among them as quants use sophisticated algorithms to buy and sell on the basis of formulas that very likely few people know or even begin to understand.   Marching hand-in-hand with these investors are the Wall Street banks with their bond trading offices.  and added into the  infernal brew is high-frequency trading.
>> 
>>  Indeed one wonders whether the speculative financial markets have created and unleashed a predatory monster that step by step is bringing down the economy of the euro zone nations along with that of the United States.
>> 
>>  the trading of these bonds is running effectively is an entirely speculative operation benefiting the bond traders and the one 10th of one percent with so much wealth that they have nothing better to do than to bet in the casino.    As  of 30 or 40 years ago markets were supposed to raise capital for productive investments in education or infrastructure.  today it would seem than bond rating is largely destructive but that it also goes on and on without question and without anyone even daring to raise a tax on financial transactions that might slow down the speed of destruction.   How can this be?    How is it possible for the mainstream media to talk solely of unknown “investors”?  
>> 
>>  does anyone really have an idea of who these investors are?  they surely are very very different from those of the 70s when investment banks were still private partnerships and global finance had not yet become a casino.
>> 
>> Are readers here aware of anyone anywhere raising these questions?
>> 
>> Investors  in bond markets surely include pension funds but from what I have seen most of the pension fund managers entrust their investment decisions to bond traders at Goldman Sachs and the like  who then take a proprietary algorithmic approach to doing “investment” on behalf of their clients. What is inside the algorithm other than profit for the traders? it seems that no one knows. Is this really correct? What am I missing? Surely I'm not the only one asking these questions?
>> 
>>  It seems as though the profits are to be made by undercutting confidence in the ponds and raising interest rates beyond sustainable levels have been since the banks capture the economy prevents interest rates set by central banks and anything above essentially 0, the only place left to gamble or “make” money is the bond market. And yet we have this powerful high-frequency trading system running on automated pilot being left on question to wreak its destructive path. Because all of this is the market magic of “investors”.   How can it be that we are still allowing our futures to be determined by this allegedly free-market of "investors" of unknown identity.
>> 
>> What am I missing?
>> 
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