[P2P-F] michigan developments

Thu Apr 28 19:46:38 CEST 2011

my hunch is that such a movement also needs a cohesive leadership group
where there is already a priori trust, and that perhaps they launched 'too
fast' before there was any such coherence,

michel

On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:42 PM, Michel Bauwens <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > certainly in the U.S. the whole system seems structurally 'stacked'
> against
> > new political forces emerging outside of the 2 party system ...
> >
>
>
> Yes, I think that both of the parties need to be confronted with
> organized groups of people who are speaking for themselves, that are
> no co-opted and under either group's control.
>
> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 1:32 PM, Michel Bauwens <
> michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Dear Sam,
> >> >
> >> > issues of power seem part of every social movement, but perhaps they
> are
> >> > heigthened in party-political structures, as you seem to suggest,
> >> >
> >> > I hope your own experiment will show a way forward that marries
> >> > political
> >> > efficicay and a way to avoid the  issues you are highlighting,
> >> >
> >> > however, I don't think I agree that these dynamics are what caused the
> >> > fall
> >> > of the greens in michigan, since they appear in every political party,
> >> > and
> >> > many of them are successfull even with such dynamics,
> >> >
> >> > so my hunch is the problem was another one,
> >> >
> >> > Michel
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think the dynamics, coupled with the lack of literacies of effective
> >> and trust based participation seemed to be the biggest problem. In
> >> other areas of the world and other cultures, the dynamics may emerge,
> >> but people are able to sort through them and move on. Here it seems
> >> with new political parties that there is a pathology that attracts a
> >> bad element, who co-opt and hijack. Many of the new party efforts seem
> >> to never recover from this. It may just be a part of our culture here.
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Fri, Apr 29, 2011 at 12:24 AM, Samuel Rose <samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> >> > wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 12:51 PM, Michel Bauwens
> >> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> > thank you Sam,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > my own task, but I have not made tremendous progress, was to be to
> >> >> > map
> >> >> > out
> >> >> > commons -oriented policy proposals that are emerging,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > the Pirate Party also has an interesting approach,  based on 8
> >> >> > principles
> >> >> > which when combined, given an indication of how a principled policy
> >> >> > would
> >> >> > look like, see the falkvinge blog for that
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >> Back in 2000 election, we had the Green Party emerge very strongly
> >> >> here in Michigan. Then, in my opinion, as often happens here in the
> US
> >> >> with efforts that start out as more egalitarian and progressive, the
> >> >> initiative of the Green Party was quickly overwhelmed by people who
> >> >> saw it as a platform to push their own quest for celebrity, or
> >> >> personal agendas, or quests for power and authority over others. The
> >> >> Green Party of Michigan then quickly fell apart around 2001. I think
> >> >> that the internet actually helped to fuel *both* the rapid growth
> >> >> *and* the rapid deterioration here. The "commons" of people's time
> and
> >> >> energy and goodwill, and trust, were quickly sapped, co-opted and
> >> >> wasted by people who wanted to put their agendas, and their
> insistence
> >> >> that people "do it my way" above the greater goals of most of the
> >> >> people involved. Internet email lists gave them an around the clock
> >> >> platform to pump out propaganda, dominate discussions, and even
> harass
> >> >> people.
> >> >>
> >> >> It is for this reason in part that I am compelled to seek a non-party
> >> >> route for progressives here in Michigan. Sure, we can work with
> >> >> existing parties. However, investing energies into putting the party
> >> >> and platform above people and their actual problems tends to
> >> >> consistently attract a really destructive element. So, I think a key
> >> >> here is trust first. Each participant has a way to work out trust
> with
> >> >> the others. if there is any party platform, let it be a *trust*-based
> >> >> platform. Technology really is not the full answer here, either.
> >> >> Neither is full answer community currency, nor open source hardware
> or
> >> >> software (although these are in my opinion components towards an
> >> >> effective shift in a positive direction that can help the majority of
> >> >> people struggling here). The problem is within the minds of people.
> We
> >> >> here in Michigan need to ***learn how to finally build real
> >> >> relationships of trust*** over and above anything else.  Maybe
> >> >> technologies can help, but human learning trumps technology here.
> >> >> (this email will be re-worked to be part of the blog post). Trust,
> >> >> real empathy and compassion for other people, and a positive insight
> >> >> that there is a path towards resolving the existing problems is the
> >> >> most effective focus. So, I am really committed to the idea of
> >> >> rejecting creating a new political party in favor of creating a
> >> >> permanent effort for peer to peer political advocacy, learning,
> >> >> re-ignition of local connections of trust and ethical wealth
> creation,
> >> >> and this effort can collaborate and lend power to existing political
> >> >> parties that are aligned with our goals.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Samuel Rose <
> samuel.rose at gmail.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I will do this. I have to get these blogging requests into my
> >> >> >> schedule, starting this Sat likely. I won't be able to move much
> on
> >> >> >> any of it until then. My good friend writes those articles for
> >> >> >> Lansing
> >> >> >> Online News, so for sure can reference that, and will think about
> >> >> >> how
> >> >> >> this maps to a p2p political advocacy perspective. I am trying to
> >> >> >> build a relationship with the guy at the end of that video
> (Lansing
> >> >> >> Mayor Virg Bernero) around the Michigan Transformation concepts
> >> >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net/Michigan:_The_Transformation_Manifesto
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> In my opinion, these are signs of a collapsing 20th century
> economy,
> >> >> >> with Michigan, Iceland, Greece, Ireland, Spain, and other places
> at
> >> >> >> the forefront of it. We could frankly use the help of people
> >> >> >> worldwide
> >> >> >> interested in p2p perspectives to think about how to move forward
> >> >> >> here
> >> >> >> in Michigan. I think there is a real opportunity, and I'll break
> out
> >> >> >> some of the research over the summer that we are doing with The
> Five
> >> >> >> Commons Report in Future Forward Institute to address things that
> >> >> >> are
> >> >> >> specific to this area, which hopefully will help people get a
> better
> >> >> >> idea. Also will think about an effective way to "map and model"
> the
> >> >> >> situation here.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 2:29 AM, Michel Bauwens
> >> >> >> <michelsub2004 at gmail.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > hi sam,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > you haven't yet featured the internationally underreported
> >> >> >> > michigan
> >> >> >> > situation yet,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > this would be a good starting point,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> http://lansingonlinenews.com/news/video-virg-bernero-on-rachel-maddow-warning-about-emergency-financial-managers/
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > --
> >> >> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >> >> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
> >> >> >> > http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> >> >> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Sam Rose
> >> >> >> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
> >> >> >> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> >> >> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> >> >> >> skype: samuelrose
> >> >> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> >> >> >> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
> >> >> >> http://forwardfound.org
> >> >> >> http://hollymeadcapital.com
> >> >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net
> >> >> >> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> >> >> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >> >> >
> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> >> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> --
> >> >> --
> >> >> Sam Rose
> >> >> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
> >> >> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> >> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> >> >> skype: samuelrose
> >> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> >> >> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
> >> >> http://forwardfound.org
> >> >> http://hollymeadcapital.com
> >> >> http://p2pfoundation.net
> >> >> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> >> >>
> >> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> >> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> >> > http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >> >
> >> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> >> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >> >
> >> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> >> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> --
> >> Sam Rose
> >> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
> >> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> >> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> >> skype: samuelrose
> >> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> >> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
> >> http://forwardfound.org
> >> http://hollymeadcapital.com
> >> http://p2pfoundation.net
> >> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
> >>
> >> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> >> ambition." - Carl Sagan
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net  -
> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
> >
> > Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
> > http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
> >
> > Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
> > http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Sam Rose
> Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
> Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
> Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
> skype: samuelrose
> email: samuel.rose at gmail.com
> http://futureforwardinstitute.com
> http://forwardfound.org
> http://hollymeadcapital.com
> http://p2pfoundation.net
> http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>
> "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
> ambition." - Carl Sagan
>

-- 
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Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
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