Re: [P2P-F] The Libre Web Application Stack
thanks paul! On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 3:51 AM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]>wrote:
posted, tweeted...
Network Robustness and the Next Net
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/network-robustness-and-the-next-net/2011/03/01 #nextnet #networks
-p
On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]> wrote:
Michel, Colin, etc.
Sure, I'll put some more detail about this up online (with references). In a nutshell, scale-free networks are robust to random failures, but vulnerable to targeted attacks because you can simply take out the hubs first and isolate most of the network parts from the other parts.
-p
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Colin H <[email protected]> wrote:
Hi Paul - agree with the sentiment about diversity of routes (and probably protocols) being more robust, but I was wondering if you could elaborate on this statement Network topologies robust to random failures are NOT robust to targeted attacks. Network topologies robust to targeted attacks are NOT robust to random failures.
I'm imagining a mesh network using a single routing method/topology (e.g. like the system devin highlighted). This architecture does not preclude multiple routes (in fact in a network with a lot of nodes, there should be multiple routes). This would seem to be an architecture robust to random failures, but I'm not sure why that architecture would make it any less robust to targeted attack than our current internet - in fact it is probably more robust (from a failure/attack perspective). I figure I'm looking at it from a different perspective though :) Cheers, Colin On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Paul B. Hartzog < [email protected]> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <
wrote:
Dear Paul,
it would be useful, if, for example you were going through the list, to identify the more 'core' solutions, perhaps through a star system or some such,
will try to get a start on that. I'm only online 2 hrs / day until I get back home from Salt Lake City (i.e. Friday will be back to normal)
an important question for me is: what is really possible, given a society dominated by hostile forces? we may not get all we want, and therefore should perhaps focus on leverage points that give the greatest return for a realistic investment of available forces ..
Yes, you have hit on a key point which needs to be discussed / navigated.
Basically this: Network topologies robust to random failures are NOT robust to targeted attacks. Network topologies robust to targeted attacks are NOT robust to random failures.
The solution of course is to move beyond a singular topology to a plural one.
In other words, Imagine a dual-network with TWO routing methods and TWO topologies , and requests are sent in parallel along both networks, so that if nodes are down in one network, data is routed via the other.
TWO is a minimum, though.
The pluralization of networks goes back to the pluralization of politics taken up by Connolly in his work The Ethos of Pluralization ( http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/C/connolly_ethos.html )
It is another example of why code people should know theory, and theory people should learn code. Cross-domain knowledges.
-p
Michel
On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <[email protected]> wrote:
Yes, I was reviewing that page today from Salt Lake City in fact and there are good categories there.
From a "lets build it" perspective though I am going to suggest another page with the same ingredients but displayed differently
As we identify and bring in various projects it is crucial to list them according to what layer they address. (you can see the layers of OSI here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model )
It's probably not necessary to display entirely based on the full OSI stack, but we at least should probably separate atoms from bits, i.e. projects that address distributed hardware projects that address distributed software
technically, running distributed hardware requires software on those nodes anyway, but hopefully you see the point.
Most of the projects I've seen are simply software that has some p2p-ish aspect. Slapping that onto a network with ISP's and a backbone, and an oligopoly of router equipment isn't going to solve either provisioning/bandwidth or governance issues.
We need to support interest in both hardware and software solutions in order to really build a new p2p net.
(my 23 cents ;-)
-p
On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Samuel Rose <[email protected]
wrote: > Michel, > > We'll definitely do that. I think we'll tie it in with the > distillation of dialogues over the next few weeks, so that the > categorization attempts to reflect what is coming out of these > discussions we are starting. > > So far, your categorizations are definitely good basic descriptions, > Michel. Thanks very much for putting this page together. > > On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Michel Bauwens > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Dear Sam, >> >> and others, >> >> I have tried to categorize projects 'by sector', to the best of my >> ability, >> but I'd be happy if someone can go throug the main list, and add new >> subsectors for those I was not able to place easily, >> >> both general list and sectoral one are below, >> >> source: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure >> >> >> >> Projects to decentralize/distribute the internet: >> >> Appleseed [2] - distributed social network >> Bitcoin, a decentralized internet currency. >> Diaspora will hopefully be a social networking community where users >> can run >> their own federated “pods”, thus owning their personal data and >> directly >> controlling what is shared with who. >> The Dot-P2P Project, an alternative DNS hierarchy that resists >> censorship. >> The Freedom Box initiated by Eben Moglen and the Freedom Box >> Foundation: >> independent plug-in server >> GNUnet is a framework for secure peer-to-peer networking that does >> not >> use >> any centralized or otherwise trusted services >> GNU Social [3] >> LittleShoot is a new web-based p2p file sharing site founded by one >> of >> the >> creators of LimeWire that could live up to its pedigree >> Lorea [4] - distributed social networks, already running on 10 >> networks >> One Social Web [5] - distributed social network using xmpp >> One Swarm [6]- F2F (friend2friend) P2P sharing; a new peer-to-peer >> tool >> that >> provides users with explicit control over their privacy by letting >> them >> determine how data is shared >> Open BTS: working on a new kind of cellular network that can be >> installed >> and operated at about 1/10 the cost of current technologies, but >> that >> will >> still be compatible with most of the handsets that are already in >> the >> market. >> Open Media Vault [7] >> Open Moko, A project to create a 'free' or open source Open Mobile >> Telephony >> platform. >> Open PGP encryption is based on self-issued certificates which gain >> authority as a result of a web of trust expressed via user- >> maintained >> keyrings rather than a hierarchical certificate authority system >> that >> can be >> centrally compromised. >> Open Storage Pod, [8] open hardware project, small cubes to store >> terabytes >> Open WRT [9]- GNU/Linux based free firmware for gateways and >> routers. >> Own Cloud, data storage project from the wider KDE community >> Retro Share [10] - secure communications with friends >> Seeks Project [11] - "social websearch" >> Sovereign Computing Group [12] - similar project to Freedom Box, >> with a >> very >> interesting Manifesto. >> Sparkle Share, [13] open source 'dropbox' replacement >> Status.Net is a microblogging system that allows users to run their >> own >> Twitter-like site and federate selected streams with other systems. >> The Tahoe Least-Authority File System, a highly fault-tolerant, >> secure >> internet filesystem. >> The Tor Project, an anonymizing overlay network. >> Unhosted: "Unhosted is a project for strengthening free software >> against >> hosted software. With our protocol, a website is only source code. >> Dynamic >> data is encrypted and decentralised, to per-user storage nodes. This >> benefits free software, as well as scalability, robustness, and >> online >> privacy." >> YaCy is a search engine where many nodes share information to build >> a >> distributed index. >> >> [edit] Distributed Technologies by Sector >> >> [edit] P2P Currencies >> >> Bitcoin, a decentralized internet currency. >> >> [edit] P2P Filesharing and Storage >> >> LittleShoot is a new web-based p2p file sharing site founded by one >> of >> the >> creators of LimeWire that could live up to its pedigree >> Open Storage Pod, [14] open hardware project, small cubes to store >> terabytes >> Own Cloud, data storage project from the wider KDE community >> The Tahoe Least-Authority File System, a highly fault-tolerant, >> secure >> internet filesystem. >> Unhosted: "Unhosted is a project for strengthening free software >> against >> hosted software. With our protocol, a website is only source code. >> Dynamic >> data is encrypted and decentralised, to per-user storage nodes. This >> benefits free software, as well as scalability, robustness, and >> online >> privacy." >> >> >> [edit] P2P Hardware >> >> The Freedom Box initiated by Eben Moglen and the Freedom Box >> Foundation: >> independent plug-in server >> Sovereign Computing Group [15] - similar project to Freedom Box, >> with a >> very >> interesting Manifesto. >> >> [edit] P2P Network Computing >> >> For the most fully distributed Peer to Peer Computer Networks at >> present, >> please check out Tribler ;Peerple ; Wipeer >> Research into more fully distributed P2P systems for the future: >> Chord, >> CX >> Project, Farsite, Globe Project, Oceanstore, Pastry >> Decentralized P2P software programs are monitored and indexed here; >> Flud >> maintains a list of Distributed Internet-based Backup Systemssuch as >> Tahoe >> >> [edit] P2P Social Networks >> >> Appleseed [16] - distributed social network >> Diaspora will hopefully be a social networking community where users >> can run >> their own federated “pods”, thus owning their personal data and >> directly >> controlling what is shared with who. >> GNUnet is a framework for secure peer-to-peer networking that does >> not >> use >> any centralized or otherwise trusted services >> GNU Social [17] >> Lorea [18] - distributed social networks, already running on 10 >> networks >> One Social Web [19] - distributed social network using xmpp >> One Swarm [20]- F2F (friend2friend) P2P sharing; a new peer-to-peer >> tool >> that provides users with explicit control over their privacy by >> letting >> them >> determine how data is shared >> >> [edit] P2P Searching >> >> List of Distributed Search Engines; [21] >> Seeks Project [22] - "social websearch" >> YaCy is a search engine where many nodes share information to build >> a >> distributed index. >> >> [edit] Virtual Worlds >> >> Peer to Peer Virtual Worlds: VastPark, Solipsis, Vast; see also: >> Multiverse >> >> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Venessa Miemis >> <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>> just wondering your impression of this post, in terms of the 'what >>> we >>> need' conversation - >>> The Libre Web Application Stack >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - >> http://blog.p2pfoundation.net >> >> Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: >> http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation >> >> Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; >> http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; >> http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens >> >> Commons Strategies Group, http://www.commonsstrategies.org/ >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > -- > -- > Sam Rose > Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552 > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451 > skype: samuelrose > email: [email protected] > http://forwardfound.org > http://futureforwardinstitute.org > http://hollymeadcapital.com > http://p2pfoundation.net > http://socialmediaclassroom.com > > "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human > ambition." - Carl Sagan >
-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
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-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
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-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- -------------------------------------------------------- The Forward Foundation http://www.ForwardFound.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.PaulBHartzog.org [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- http://www.panarchy.com [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- University of Michigan [email protected] -------------------------------------------------------- The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms. --Muriel Rukeyser
Perceive differently, then you will act differently. --Paul B. Hartzog --------------------------------------------------------
-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
participants (1)
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Michel Bauwens