On Fri, Feb 25, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <
paulbhartzog@gmail.com> wrote:
> Michel, Colin, etc.
>
> Sure, I'll put some more detail about this up online (with references).
> In a nutshell, scale-free networks are robust to random failures,
> but vulnerable to targeted attacks because you can simply
> take out the hubs first and isolate most of the network parts
> from the other parts.
>
> -p
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Colin H <
hawkett@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Paul - agree with the sentiment about diversity of routes (and probably
>> protocols) being more robust, but I was wondering if you could elaborate on
>> this statement
>> Network topologies robust to random failures are NOT robust to targeted
>> attacks.
>> Network topologies robust to targeted attacks are NOT robust to random
>> failures.
>>
>> I'm imagining a mesh network using a single routing method/topology (e.g.
>> like the system devin highlighted). This architecture does not preclude
>> multiple routes (in fact in a network with a lot of nodes, there should be
>> multiple routes). This would seem to be an architecture robust to random
>> failures, but I'm not sure why that architecture would make it any less
>> robust to targeted attack than our current internet - in fact it is probably
>> more robust (from a failure/attack perspective). I figure I'm looking at it
>> from a different perspective though :)
>> Cheers,
>> Colin
>> On Mon, Feb 21, 2011 at 3:25 PM, Paul B. Hartzog <
paulbhartzog@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <
michelsub2004@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Dear Paul,
>>> >
>>> > it would be useful, if, for example you were going through the list, to
>>> > identify the more 'core' solutions, perhaps through a star system or
>>> > some
>>> > such,
>>>
>>> will try to get a start on that. I'm only online 2 hrs / day until I
>>> get back home
>>> from Salt Lake City (i.e. Friday will be back to normal)
>>>
>>> > an important question for me is: what is really possible, given a
>>> > society
>>> > dominated by hostile forces? we may not get all we want, and therefore
>>> > should perhaps focus on leverage points that give the greatest return
>>> > for a
>>> > realistic investment of available forces ..
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, you have hit on a key point which needs to be discussed / navigated.
>>>
>>> Basically this:
>>> Network topologies robust to random failures are NOT robust to targeted
>>> attacks.
>>> Network topologies robust to targeted attacks are NOT robust to random
>>> failures.
>>>
>>> The solution of course is to move beyond a singular topology to a plural
>>> one.
>>>
>>> In other words,
>>> Imagine a dual-network with TWO routing methods and TWO topologies ,
>>> and requests are sent in parallel along both networks,
>>> so that if nodes are down in one network, data is routed via the other.
>>>
>>> TWO is a minimum, though.
>>>
>>> The pluralization of networks goes back to the pluralization of politics
>>> taken up by Connolly in his work The Ethos of Pluralization
>>> (
http://www.upress.umn.edu/Books/C/connolly_ethos.html )
>>>
>>> It is another example of why code people should know theory,
>>> and theory people should learn code. Cross-domain knowledges.
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>> >
>>> > Michel
>>> >
>>> > On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 1:17 PM, Paul B. Hartzog
>>> > <
paulbhartzog@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes, I was reviewing that page today from Salt Lake City in fact and
>>> >> there are good categories there.
>>> >>
>>> >> From a "lets build it" perspective though
>>> >> I am going to suggest another page with the same ingredients
>>> >> but displayed differently
>>> >>
>>> >> As we identify and bring in various projects
>>> >> it is crucial to list them according to what layer they address.
>>> >> (you can see the layers of OSI here
>>> >>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model )
>>> >>
>>> >> It's probably not necessary to display entirely based
>>> >> on the full OSI stack,
>>> >> but we at least should probably separate atoms from bits,
>>> >> i.e.
>>> >> projects that address distributed hardware
>>> >> projects that address distributed software
>>> >>
>>> >> technically, running distributed hardware requires
>>> >> software on those nodes anyway,
>>> >> but hopefully you see the point.
>>> >>
>>> >> Most of the projects I've seen are simply
>>> >> software that has some p2p-ish aspect.
>>> >> Slapping that onto a network with ISP's and a backbone,
>>> >> and an oligopoly of router equipment
>>> >> isn't going to solve either provisioning/bandwidth or governance
>>> >> issues.
>>> >>
>>> >> We need to support interest in both hardware and software
>>> >> solutions in order to really build a new p2p net.
>>> >>
>>> >> (my 23 cents ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >> -p
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Samuel Rose <
samuel.rose@gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Michel,
>>> >> >
>>> >> > We'll definitely do that. I think we'll tie it in with the
>>> >> > distillation of dialogues over the next few weeks, so that the
>>> >> > categorization attempts to reflect what is coming out of these
>>> >> > discussions we are starting.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > So far, your categorizations are definitely good basic descriptions,
>>> >> > Michel. Thanks very much for putting this page together.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Sat, Feb 19, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Michel Bauwens
>>> >> > <
michelsub2004@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >> Dear Sam,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> and others,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> I have tried to categorize projects 'by sector', to the best of my
>>> >> >> ability,
>>> >> >> but I'd be happy if someone can go throug the main list, and add new
>>> >> >> subsectors for those I was not able to place easily,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> both general list and sectoral one are below,
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> source:
http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:P2P_Infrastructure
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Projects to decentralize/distribute the internet:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Appleseed [2] - distributed social network
>>> >> >> Bitcoin, a decentralized internet currency.
>>> >> >> Diaspora will hopefully be a social networking community where users
>>> >> >> can run
>>> >> >> their own federated “pods”, thus owning their personal data and
>>> >> >> directly
>>> >> >> controlling what is shared with who.
>>> >> >> The Dot-P2P Project, an alternative DNS hierarchy that resists
>>> >> >> censorship.
>>> >> >> The Freedom Box initiated by Eben Moglen and the Freedom Box
>>> >> >> Foundation:
>>> >> >> independent plug-in server
>>> >> >> GNUnet is a framework for secure peer-to-peer networking that does
>>> >> >> not
>>> >> >> use
>>> >> >> any centralized or otherwise trusted services
>>> >> >> GNU Social [3]
>>> >> >> LittleShoot is a new web-based p2p file sharing site founded by one
>>> >> >> of
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> creators of LimeWire that could live up to its pedigree
>>> >> >> Lorea [4] - distributed social networks, already running on 10
>>> >> >> networks
>>> >> >> One Social Web [5] - distributed social network using xmpp
>>> >> >> One Swarm [6]- F2F (friend2friend) P2P sharing; a new peer-to-peer
>>> >> >> tool
>>> >> >> that
>>> >> >> provides users with explicit control over their privacy by letting
>>> >> >> them
>>> >> >> determine how data is shared
>>> >> >> Open BTS: working on a new kind of cellular network that can be
>>> >> >> installed
>>> >> >> and operated at about 1/10 the cost of current technologies, but
>>> >> >> that
>>> >> >> will
>>> >> >> still be compatible with most of the handsets that are already in
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> market.
>>> >> >> Open Media Vault [7]
>>> >> >> Open Moko, A project to create a 'free' or open source Open Mobile
>>> >> >> Telephony
>>> >> >> platform.
>>> >> >> Open PGP encryption is based on self-issued certificates which gain
>>> >> >> authority as a result of a web of trust expressed via user-
>>> >> >> maintained
>>> >> >> keyrings rather than a hierarchical certificate authority system
>>> >> >> that
>>> >> >> can be
>>> >> >> centrally compromised.
>>> >> >> Open Storage Pod, [8] open hardware project, small cubes to store
>>> >> >> terabytes
>>> >> >> Open WRT [9]- GNU/Linux based free firmware for gateways and
>>> >> >> routers.
>>> >> >> Own Cloud, data storage project from the wider KDE community
>>> >> >> Retro Share [10] - secure communications with friends
>>> >> >> Seeks Project [11] - "social websearch"
>>> >> >> Sovereign Computing Group [12] - similar project to Freedom Box,
>>> >> >> with a
>>> >> >> very
>>> >> >> interesting Manifesto.
>>> >> >> Sparkle Share, [13] open source 'dropbox' replacement
>>> >> >> Status.Net is a microblogging system that allows users to run their
>>> >> >> own
>>> >> >> Twitter-like site and federate selected streams with other systems.
>>> >> >> The Tahoe Least-Authority File System, a highly fault-tolerant,
>>> >> >> secure
>>> >> >> internet filesystem.
>>> >> >> The Tor Project, an anonymizing overlay network.
>>> >> >> Unhosted: "Unhosted is a project for strengthening free software
>>> >> >> against
>>> >> >> hosted software. With our protocol, a website is only source code.
>>> >> >> Dynamic
>>> >> >> data is encrypted and decentralised, to per-user storage nodes. This
>>> >> >> benefits free software, as well as scalability, robustness, and
>>> >> >> online
>>> >> >> privacy."
>>> >> >> YaCy is a search engine where many nodes share information to build
>>> >> >> a
>>> >> >> distributed index.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] Distributed Technologies by Sector
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Currencies
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Bitcoin, a decentralized internet currency.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Filesharing and Storage
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> LittleShoot is a new web-based p2p file sharing site founded by one
>>> >> >> of
>>> >> >> the
>>> >> >> creators of LimeWire that could live up to its pedigree
>>> >> >> Open Storage Pod, [14] open hardware project, small cubes to store
>>> >> >> terabytes
>>> >> >> Own Cloud, data storage project from the wider KDE community
>>> >> >> The Tahoe Least-Authority File System, a highly fault-tolerant,
>>> >> >> secure
>>> >> >> internet filesystem.
>>> >> >> Unhosted: "Unhosted is a project for strengthening free software
>>> >> >> against
>>> >> >> hosted software. With our protocol, a website is only source code.
>>> >> >> Dynamic
>>> >> >> data is encrypted and decentralised, to per-user storage nodes. This
>>> >> >> benefits free software, as well as scalability, robustness, and
>>> >> >> online
>>> >> >> privacy."
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Hardware
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The Freedom Box initiated by Eben Moglen and the Freedom Box
>>> >> >> Foundation:
>>> >> >> independent plug-in server
>>> >> >> Sovereign Computing Group [15] - similar project to Freedom Box,
>>> >> >> with a
>>> >> >> very
>>> >> >> interesting Manifesto.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Network Computing
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> For the most fully distributed Peer to Peer Computer Networks at
>>> >> >> present,
>>> >> >> please check out Tribler ;Peerple ; Wipeer
>>> >> >> Research into more fully distributed P2P systems for the future:
>>> >> >> Chord,
>>> >> >> CX
>>> >> >> Project, Farsite, Globe Project, Oceanstore, Pastry
>>> >> >> Decentralized P2P software programs are monitored and indexed here;
>>> >> >> Flud
>>> >> >> maintains a list of Distributed Internet-based Backup Systemssuch as
>>> >> >> Tahoe
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Social Networks
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Appleseed [16] - distributed social network
>>> >> >> Diaspora will hopefully be a social networking community where users
>>> >> >> can run
>>> >> >> their own federated “pods”, thus owning their personal data and
>>> >> >> directly
>>> >> >> controlling what is shared with who.
>>> >> >> GNUnet is a framework for secure peer-to-peer networking that does
>>> >> >> not
>>> >> >> use
>>> >> >> any centralized or otherwise trusted services
>>> >> >> GNU Social [17]
>>> >> >> Lorea [18] - distributed social networks, already running on 10
>>> >> >> networks
>>> >> >> One Social Web [19] - distributed social network using xmpp
>>> >> >> One Swarm [20]- F2F (friend2friend) P2P sharing; a new peer-to-peer
>>> >> >> tool
>>> >> >> that provides users with explicit control over their privacy by
>>> >> >> letting
>>> >> >> them
>>> >> >> determine how data is shared
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] P2P Searching
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> List of Distributed Search Engines; [21]
>>> >> >> Seeks Project [22] - "social websearch"
>>> >> >> YaCy is a search engine where many nodes share information to build
>>> >> >> a
>>> >> >> distributed index.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> [edit] Virtual Worlds
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Peer to Peer Virtual Worlds: VastPark, Solipsis, Vast; see also:
>>> >> >> Multiverse
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> On Sun, Feb 20, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Venessa Miemis
>>> >> >> <
venessamiemis@gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> just wondering your impression of this post, in terms of the 'what
>>> >> >>> we
>>> >> >>> need' conversation -
>>> >> >>> The Libre Web Application Stack
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> --
>>> >> >> P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net -
>>> >> >>
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Connect:
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> >> >>
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Updates:
http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
>>> >> >>
http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> >> >>
http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Commons Strategies Group,
http://www.commonsstrategies.org/
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > Sam Rose
>>> >> > Future Forward Institute and Forward Foundation
>>> >> > Tel:+1(517) 639-1552
>>> >> > Cel: +1-(517)-974-6451
>>> >> > skype: samuelrose
>>> >> > email:
samuel.rose@gmail.com
>>> >> >
http://forwardfound.org
>>> >> >
http://futureforwardinstitute.org
>>> >> >
http://hollymeadcapital.com
>>> >> >
http://p2pfoundation.net
>>> >> >
http://socialmediaclassroom.com
>>> >> >
>>> >> > "The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human
>>> >> > ambition." - Carl Sagan
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The Forward Foundation
>>> >>
http://www.ForwardFound.org
>>> >>
paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
>>> >> PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >>
http://www.panarchy.com
>>> >>
PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> University of Michigan
>>> >>
PHartzog@umich.edu
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
>>> >> --Muriel Rukeyser
>>> >>
>>> >> Perceive differently, then you will act differently.
>>> >> --Paul B. Hartzog
>>> >> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > P2P Foundation:
http://p2pfoundation.net -
>>> >
http://blog.p2pfoundation.net
>>> >
>>> > Connect:
http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss:
>>> >
http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation
>>> >
>>> > Updates:
http://del.icio.us/mbauwens;
http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens;
>>> >
http://twitter.com/mbauwens;
http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens
>>> >
>>> > Commons Strategies Group,
http://www.commonsstrategies.org/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> The Forward Foundation
>>>
http://www.ForwardFound.org
>>>
paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>
http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
>>> PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>>
http://www.panarchy.com
>>>
PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> University of Michigan
>>>
PHartzog@umich.edu
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
>>> --Muriel Rukeyser
>>>
>>> Perceive differently, then you will act differently.
>>> --Paul B. Hartzog
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The Forward Foundation
>
http://www.ForwardFound.org
>
paul.b.hartzog@forwardfound.org
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
http://www.PaulBHartzog.org
> PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
http://www.panarchy.com
>
PaulBHartzog@panarchy.com
> --------------------------------------------------------
> University of Michigan
>
PHartzog@umich.edu
> --------------------------------------------------------
> The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
> --Muriel Rukeyser
>
> Perceive differently, then you will act differently.
> --Paul B. Hartzog
> --------------------------------------------------------
>