*Silke says : "Perhaps sbd want's to start collecting these experiences ( EDUCATION AS COMMONING ) on the P2P website?"* Sounds good. I'm in. Also, personally, I would DIFFERENTIATE between *"learning as commons"* , and "education" as commons... ;) I imagine there are already all kinds of content and categories related to these topics - so I guess it can help to have a clear vision of what it is we may be expressing. On this thread, imho, no general consensus - just overlaps in a diversity of approaches. As I understand it, some focusing on reproducing the university , but in a cooperative structure ( with some social media blend ), and focused on the teachers, who would become the owners of the structure ? An alternative that seems to be more in the direction you seem to suggest Silke, though I feel you may be using a midway approach, is one not only that is learner centered, but learner controlled. Basing ourselves on a Contribution Economy approach, See ladder of participation : http://p2pfoundation.net/Ladder_of_Participation As for editing the p2pfoundation wiki, I try not to mess too much with the p2pfoundation site, sometimes just adding or correcting, rather sending info to others ( often Michel ) to add to it. If others create the structure / how it is categorized, or pages, I can add links where it seems appropriate. [image: File:Ladder-example.png] On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 1:47 PM, Silke Helfrich <[email protected]>wrote:

Dear all, just a short note:

Once the new university-like "institution" I was talking about is running ("classes" start by early January 2014, and I hope official recognition is underway) I'll post some more information via this list.

There is a huge need to show that also our educational systems can be remodeled as commons; and the good thing is, this is nothing new at all, we can learn from practices worldwide.

May be at some point we should think about putting all this experience together and discussing it in depth! For me -for instance - the zapatistas approach is extremely inspiring (but different from what we also need to do here in Germany); or the campesino a campesino programms all over the world - so how to get this into higher education in countries like mine? Perhaps sbd want's to start collecting these experiences (EDUCATION AS COMMONING) on the P2P website?

Very best Silke

Am 18.12.2013 06:54, schrieb [email protected]:

...

Hi

I just get home from big student protests after the new austrian government abrogated the 'ministry of science and research". It's now part of the 'ministry for economy'.

I am also quite interested in the free university projects going on. My overall interest is in co-operative learning not only within the academic sphere but outside of the university, also academic-and-non-academic learning together.

Since we are trying out a kind of 'free and open university' project in Graz I am facing many questions. There're concerning: * learning from (urban) commons projects. * How can we use the city as resource? How can we participate in urban development to create a city for our needs? (Since german commons summerschool with silke I am thinking of how to 'activate' people in participating in urban development. This can also be seen as a kind of strategy against enclosure of urban commons) * the integration of people of different social groups (e.g. academic and non-academic, from different cultures/countries) and of different age for learning practices, also research and working on solutions in one's everyday life.

Our project in Graz is (right now) in the very beginning and we are still searching for people who have knowledge and experience about education. So far we are trying out different things: skill sharing, using online courses, reading circles and practical stuff. Our first trial is concerning gardening. Ecology and biology is too theoretical, so we wanna use the community gardens in Graz. We are trying to include very different groups and people of different age (starting with kindergarden, also people in retirement).

Best David

Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:

Interesting Silke.

Feels already closer to a "Cooperative of Learners" :)

Is it a face to face real world living space you imagine ?

I am interested in projects that could happen in Germany.

How big would you imagine to start off ?

Can it build on something existing ? Some existing faculties ? Possibly a continuation of a program, to start with ? If so, which ones would be interested , as to help learned to bring research and projects further into life, beyond conventional Phd's ? And feeding a commons ?

Could it be in collaboration with existing "Open Universities", or platforms such as Gaia University ? http://www.gaiauniversity.org/

Somehow, what you suggest, with support to the learners / students costs, reminds me also of the Steiner backed Youth Initiative Program http://yip.se/ ( if not already in touch, I ll gladly support with networking )

I somehow imagine it like small co-living / co-learning spaces, which could be networked within one same area.

I also remember vaguely ( do not remember the references ) some project in Berlin which focused on networking various places ( including work spaces ? ) open to sharing learning ?

///

Is there any convergence space online where it is already possible to stay updated in relation to the vision you express ? If not in the short term, for whenever there is a more specific definition of such vision ?

Just stumbled on this mail and links , which are likely common knowledge to most people on this list ? :

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/op-n-m/NaFQsXmBU4k

Note : or instead of an opposition between a limited capitalist market Vs commons, are we rather talking about *non-monopolistic commons based markets *?

*Markets in the form of available information with a variety of criteria* - not only based on price in terms of monopolist tokens ?

http://p2pfoundation.net/Logic_of_the_Market_versus_ the_Logic_of_the_Commons

http://commonsblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/the-commons- year-one-of-the-global-commons-movement/

also reminds me of Festivalism http://p2pfoundation.net/Festivalism http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/papers/Festivalism_at_Work.html

also see Kevin Carson's : http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com/2010/01/11/ contents/

The Table

The Logic of the Market versus the Logic of the Commons

*Market* *Commons* *Focus*

What can I sell?Exchange value

What do we need?Use value

*Core beliefs* Scarcity Plenty Homo oeconomicus Homo cooperans It's about resources (allocation)/./ It's about us. *Governance* Market-State Polycentric / Peer-to-Peer Governance

Decision making hierarchical horizontal Command (Power, Law, Violence) Consensus, Free Cooperation, self-organization *Social relationships* Centralization of power (monopoly)

Decentralization of power(autonomy)

Property Possession Access to rival resources Limited by boundaries & rules defined by owner Limited by boundaries & rules defined by usergroups Access to nonrival resources Made scarce (to ensure profitability) Open access (to ensure social equity) Use rights Granted by owner Co-decided by user groups *Dominant strategy* Out-compete Out-cooperate *Results*

For the resources

ErosionEnclosure

Conservation Reproduction & Multiplication

For the people Exlusion & Participation Inclusion & Emancipation

* Source: The Commons: Year One of the Global Commons Movement by

Silke Helfrich (29. Januar 2011) <http://commonsblog.wordpress.com/2011/01/29/the-commons- year-one-of-the-global-commons-movement/>

http://business.nmsu.edu/~dboje/papers/Festivalism_at_Work.html

**

*Table One: Spectacle and Festival*

*Spectacle*

**

*Festival*

1. Work 2. Work or play time 3. Imposed patterns of behavior 4. Dead time 5. Religions of consumption 6. Pseudo desires 7. Pseudo needs 8. Loss of Self 9. Colonized spaces 10. Spectator 11. Functionary 12. Survival of the Fittest/Richest

1. Play 2. Work and play 3. Freely constructed behavior 4. Live time 5. Self 6. Transparent desires 7. Transparent needs 8. Self-Management 9. Free spaces 10. Participant/Co-designer 11. Self-Managed 12. Coevolution and Co-survival

http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Business_Models

http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Economics#Towards_an_ Ethical_Economy:

Towards an Ethical Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Ethical_Economy>:

* *The Ethical Economy <http://p2pfoundation.net/Ethical_Economy>.

Rebuilding Value After the Crisis. By Adam Arvidsson <http://p2pfoundation.net/Adam_Arvidsson> and Nicolai Peitersen. Columbia University Press, 2013*

1. Reciprocity. An Economics of Social Relations <http://p2pfoundation.net/Economics_of_Social_Relations>. Serge-Christophe Kolm. Cambridge University Press, 2008*[24] <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1174852/? site_locale=en_GB>* 2. Macrojustice. The Political Economy of Fairness <http://p2pfoundation.net/Political_Economy_of_Fairness>. By

Serge-Christophe Kolm. Cambridge University Press, 2005 [25] <http://www.cambridge.org/gb/knowledge/isbn/item1171540/? site_locale=en_GB> 3. Herman Daly. For the Common Good: Redirecting the Economy toward

Community, the Environment, and a Sustainable Future <http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2& tag=p2pfoundation-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&location= http%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F0807047058% 2Fref%3Dpd_sim_b_2%3F%255Fencoding%3DUTF8%26v%3Dglance%26n%3D283155>. Beacon Press, 1994 4. Natural Capitalism <http://p2pfoundation.net/Natural_Capitalism>: Creating the Next

Industrial Revolution – Paul Hawken

On Monetary Economics and Transformation:

1. *The Future of Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Future_of_Money>.

Creating New Wealth, Work, and a Wiser World. Bernard Lietaer <http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Economics?title= Bernard_Lietaer&action=edit&redlink=1>. Random House* free pdf <http://www.techrules.com/clients/aeatonline/docs/ Bernard%20Lietaer%20-%20The%20future%20of%20money.pdf> 2. Local Money <http://p2pfoundation.net/Local_Money>: How To Make

It Happen In Your Community – Peter North

On Tue, Dec 17, 2013 at 7:58 PM, Silke Helfrich <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Dear John

I very much agree with you and am therefor happy to participate in a new attempt to open a University in Germany which is based on exactly the ideas you mention:

Students won't only pay (hopefully money the get as a gift from somewhere/ that is what we try to organize - there has to be gift-money in education), they also will receive the money, that is they will - as a students organization - manage the fees by themselves which to some extend will be the most important infrastructure of the University. (I say "to some extend" because there are still some rules to fit into the current system to get the title of a University) .

The concept is so consequent to say: "and if the students don't need the University anymore, the University should close". As you said: education is relational.

Very best Silke

Am 16.12.2013 15:22, schrieb John:

Dear Folks,

There is nothing inherently wrong with paying someone for a service they provide to you. Indeed, one of the absurdities of the present educational set up is precisely that students have so little say in the educational services they pay for. There was a time when some universities were operated as student-run educational co-operatives in which students subjected the professors that they were going to hire to scrupulous cross examination before approving their positions as educational service providers to the student body. This was the case at the University of Bologna until quite recently.

So, one angle of approach is for students to have far more control over the selection of faculty, over the design and evaluation of courses, and of the running of the university itself – in partnership with the teachers themselves and other community stakeholders.

Education is a classic /relational good/, that is, a good that is

co-produced by the provider and the recipient of the service /together/. Education doesn't happen unless /both/ parties are fully

engaged in the exchange of knowledge relations, and it is optimally produced when the educational relationship is one of reciprocity and equality. This is the reason why authentic education is not a commodity – it is an exchange of human relations and revolves around the question of the nature of knowledge production.

The creation of equality, of reciprocal educational relationships, and the provision of control rights to students is the heart of how educational institutions need to be reformed. Unless this happens, everything else is a sideshow and a distraction.

John

On 13-12-16 4:49 AM, Joss Winn wrote:

On 16/12/2013 09:13, "mp"<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

On 15/12/13 19:03,[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> wrote:

I certainly don't want to criticise the idea of a cooperative university and all the work you are doing at the SSC. However the fundamental distinction between students and teachers is that the former have to pay and the latter get paid.

Is that what they call capitalism? Social relations revolving around a commodity form, in this case "education" as the commodity? Giving structure to a hierarchy, where there are experts (controlling the means of (knowledge) production) and followers (consuming the produced knowledge commodities, if they can afford it)?

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