seems to me that the "verified members" who paid into the organization, should either have the option of becoming part of the corporation or at least have their fees refunded... its similar to arts-organizations (Rhizome is an online example), that for years, reap all the benefits of unpaid labour and then for a few corporate-institutional shekels, morph into the very privileged tyrants they initially/presumably despised /:b ============= PROXY Gallery http://bit.ly/proxygallery global islands project: http://bbrace.net/id.html "We fill the craters left by the bombs And once again we sing And once again we sow Because life never surrenders." -- anonymous Vietnamese poem "Nothing can be said about the sea." -- Mr Selvam, Akkrapattai, India 2004 "... for every star-driven enterprise there are corollary benefits for those who support it and keep their mouths shut." -- John Young, NYC 2010 "Shikata ga nai -- There's nothing we can do about it." -- Japanese tsunami survivors, 2011 { brad brace } <<<<< [email protected] >>>> ~finger for pgp --- bbs: brad brace sound --- --- http://69.64.229.114:8000 --- --- http://bradbrace.net/undisclosed.html --- . The 12hr-ISBN-JPEG Project >>>> posted since 1994 <<<< + + + serial ftp://ftp.eskimo.com/u/b/bbrace + + + eccentric ftp:// (your-site-here!) + + + continuous hotline://artlyin.ftr.va.com.au + + + hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace + + + imagery http://12hr.noemata.net News: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr alt.binaries.pictures.misc alt.binaries.pictures.fine-art.misc alt.12hr . 12hr email subscriptions => http://bradbrace.net/buy-into.html . Other | Mirror: http://www.eskimo.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html Projects | Reverse Solidus: http://bradbrace.net/ | http://bbrace.net . Blog | http://bradbrace.net/wordpress . IM | [email protected] . IRC | #bbrace . ICQ | 109352289 . SIP | [email protected] . SKYPE | bbbrace | registered linux user #323978 ~> I am not a victim coercion is natural I am a messenger freedom is artifical /:b

yes, yes, even more eternal equivocation... but hey, why not at least buy a button? finally do something meaningful ;)) the continuous cultural bail-outs, conceptual ponzi-schemes, and insider quid-pro-quo ("critical mobility...") are finally coming to a joyously redemptive end; the options for (non-complicit) artists will no longer be reductively dependent on obstructionist oligarchical art-agencies to celebrate this event and concurrent devaluations, I've quickly (without any funding,) designed a FREEE pinback button appropriated from US Federal Currency Seals: ENCUMBRANCE EXCLUSION EQUIVOCATION (only $2.99 for shipping, delivered anywhere); provide cash, cheque, or paypal with delivery address via [email protected] http://bradbrace.net/EEE.html awesome! /:b On Thu, 1 Sep 2011, robin wrote:

Hi Brad,

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:48 PM, { brad brace } <[email protected]> wrote:

...

seems to me that the "verified members" who paid into the organization, should either have the option of becoming part of the corporation or at least have their fees refunded...

Maybe there is even some judicial possibilities around it. And it wouldn't surprise me if they (CS) have not even researched into that.

...

its similar to arts-organizations (Rhizome is an online example), that for years, reap all the benefits of unpaid labour and then for a few corporate-institutional shekels, morph into the very privileged tyrants they initially/presumably despised

You have some more examples by the way? I found this one, http://rhizome.org/about/ but it says it's non-profit?

only for "everyone-else... ?;b

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 7:53 PM, robin <[email protected]> wrote:

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

...

thanks Robin ...

in theory, a B Corporation is not such a bad thing, no, as it is and remains dedicated to a social good?

I don't know. I haven't researched much into this B-corp thing.

Though there is something interesting here in my opinion, which is that CS will be employee-owned. But how this will relate to voting-power we don't know yet. The employees will have more voting power than the two investors, but how the division will be and how much they can vote for (if it is only the board or example) is publicly unkown. And we don't know either how the shares are distributed among the employees (equally among employees or not, etc). As always has been the case with Couchsurfing, there is more we don't know than what we do know :s

In the end though, it is still a corp. and this is why many CS-members currently are pissed off. For many (not everyone), it goes against the culture that CS stands for. The culture is about sharing, not profit.

I wrote a little comment here explaining that culture: http://shareable.net/blog/the-rise-of-the-not-just-for-profit#comments

It's a shame that Casey never was really serious about non-profit and developing community-models of doing it together. He just did whatever felt easiest, listening to advisers who were closest to him, and unfortunately they were not really what you may call post-capitalists.

But that's o.k. I think it is good that CS finally has become more explicit about what they really are about. So we can move on now and they can have their game.

Robin.

-- Life happens at the level of events, not of words

Thanks Robin, the point you make about couchsurfing being a "corporation" - albeit with a B "certification" - and not a "benefit corporation", does make a big difference indeed, so much so I feel like underlining it - quoting from the article you mention : * * * http://charitylawyerblog.com/2011/01/15/b-corps-is-not-a-new-legal-form-by-k... * * * *"The key difference is that the law requires a third party assessment** ( for a "Benefit Corporation"),* *whereas B Corps is - only - * *a certification." * ... "Why the difference is significant: • One can be a B Corps and yet be incorporated legally as a C corporation, an LLC, even a sole proprietorship. In other words, *a company can be certified as a B Corps without ever incorporating as a benefit corporation* • One can be a benefit corporation under Maryland law without being a B Corps. The Maryland law does not require that benefit corporations be certified as B Corps. Rather, it requires that benefit corporations’ social and environmental performance be assessed by an independent third party that makes publicly available or accessible the following information: 1. The factors considered when measuring the performance of a business; 2. The relative weightings of those factors; and 3. The identity of the persons who developed and control changes to the standard and the process by which those changes were made." On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 7:28 PM, robin <[email protected]> wrote:

...

...

On Thu, Sep 1, 2011 at 6:01 PM, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]> wrote:

...

thanks Robin ...

in theory, a B Corporation is not such a bad thing, no, as it is and remains dedicated to a social good?

I don't know. I haven't researched much into this B-corp thing.

Though there is something interesting here in my opinion, which is that CS will be employee-owned. But how this will relate to voting-power we don't know yet.

The employees will have more voting power than the two investors, but how the division will be and how much they can vote for (if it is only the board or example) is publicly unkown.

And we don't know either how the shares are distributed among the employees (equally among employees or not, etc).

As always has been the case with Couchsurfing, there is more we don't know than what we do know :s

The 5-year sage of Couchsurfing purposely misinforming the community continues: Couchsurfing: "This structure legally allows us to put our ideals before our profits." (try to read that sentence again).

And yet Couchsurfing is not even a registered Benefit Corp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bcorp), but still a normal C-corporation

http://www.bcorporation.net/index.cfm/fuseaction/company.report/ID/5e086197-...

Corporate Structure: C Corporation Ownership: Private

See als: B Corps is Not a New Legal Form

http://charitylawyerblog.com/2011/01/15/b-corps-is-not-a-new-legal-form-by-k...

See also the discussion on the CS-group http://www.couchsurfing.org/group_read.html?gid=45507&post=10059584

Robin.

-- Life happens at the level of events, not of words

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