Dear friends, on the maillist from NetworkedLabour, now i am excluded, Michel wrote in a discussion: -------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht -------- Betreff: Re: [Networkedlabour] Fwd: Ontogenesis and the Negation of Life and Death (was Re: Internet: the INTER-connection of local NET-works) Datum: Wed, 13 Aug 2014 11:04:28 +0700 Von: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> An: [email protected] <[email protected]> the first email I ever got from willi was an accusation that I was an austrian economist, the very people I have been fighting for so many years; I have since simply ignored any email communication coming from him; I am surprised that people are so tolerant against systematic ad hominem attacks that are often slanderous and based on pure ignorance and projection; we used to manage this on p2p-f list, asking people to focus on arguments ... but once I gave up , I notice no one else seems to care about this deterioration of discourse ethics, Michel On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 8:13 AM, Kevin Carson <[email protected]> wrote:
I set up a gmail filter because I was getting sick of willi
free.market.anticapitalist from Kevin Carson. What is that? Yes Michel. The PPL is a "free market" instrument. Independent of your intention. And independent, that you think, you fight against the "austrian economist", you act at the same level with your PPL. We have read the critical reflection from Jakob Rigi and Stephan Meretz. You don't like the principal discussion about market orientation. Then you write, i have say, you are a CIA agent. But you know very clear, that never i do it. But Hellekin do it to me. It is not important. It is like the "political commissars" from Cuba in Venezuela. They don't like to args in a discussion. Therefore they have generated this personal slander. Like Hellekin and some people in the P2P-lang-es maillist. The market orientation have only one goal. To create a parasitic space. For that they organize the money system. And they create the term "knowledge worker". People who never work for their material livelihood. They live from the work of others. But in our future it is impossible. All people have to be part of this working. Then we can reduce the necessary labor to 8 hours or lesser in the week. As an average. Of course, for many tasks we concentrate our labour time. If we construct machines or electronic systems we need the concentration of time. But what people in this lists and discussion environment have ever been active in the real working? Oriented to the material forming for that, what we need for our life? Only very few. The most are only speakers and writers. No more. This is the core for "market orientation". Because you have nothing for directly exchange, you need the abstraction level of a money system. Very simple. many greetings, willi Popayan, Colombia
On Aug 13, 2014, at 1:34 PM, willi uebelherr <[email protected]> wrote:
I am surprised that people are so tolerant against systematic ad hominem attacks that are often slanderous and based on pure ignorance and projection; we used to manage this on p2p-f list, asking people to focus on arguments ... but once I gave up , I notice no one else seems to care about this deterioration of discourse ethics,
Michel
Talk about behavior Michel? What about your behavior in going back on your solemn word to write an extensive analysis of what happened to you in Ecuador. And then after Bernardo the moderator of the spanish p2p list with whom you had a parting of the ways but still left him as moderator started ramping up the attacks on you a month ago YOU decided to capitulate to the attacks naming as the reason for doing so a request from the p2p "core group" who complained that the attacks were making it impossible for them to do their normal p2p work and that their identity needed to remain secret to shield them from on going attack. When asked about the identity of this core group, you claimed that it was secret and could not be revealed and said that if I pledged to keep it secret you would tell me. I am glad i did not fall for that bait. Why? Because a few days later Orsan revealed that the identity of "core" p2p members is right there on your wiki. So why the secrecy Michel? what kind of game were you playing with me and with others? And what kind of TRUST have you left in the spanish hacker community? I care about deterioration of discourse ethics. And will ask you again for probably the fourth time. From what you have told me it was sometime in march that the FLOKistas started calling me a neocon, a cia agent, a front for robert steele etc. Yet you breathed not a word to me of these on going attacks and encouraged me to carry working on my policy paper until on april 30th when DV reneged on his pledge of the airfare i withdrew it. It was only during the first days of May that you revealed that you had delayed even looking at my drafts for some six weeks because DV and others had told you they were worthless. "a juvenile rant" Yet during at least the full month of april you encouraged me to continue to pour time and effort down what you knew to be a rathole. Bottom line michel, under these conditions why would i ever trust you for anything in the future? You promised to come clean. You went back on that promise in the most awkward of ways. Why? To protect your brand new strategic partnership with CIC? You DID confront DV and BG and XB in their lies about me. Thank you for that. But the most important issue - namely the fact that according to you my integrity had been under attack by these people of some 6 weeks before at the very end of april you looked at my work for the first time…. YOU never revealed THAT to me until it was far too late. WHY!!??
deterioration of discourse ethics,
indeed.
participants (2)
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Gordon Cook -
willi uebelherr