Any thoughts re Setting Up “Charity” Banks using the new Electronic Currencies? From: Nikolay Georgiev Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 4:40 PM To: Michel Bauwens Cc: p2p-foundation ; Samuel Rose Subject: Re: [P2P-F] OSE Europe - Open Process Thank you Michel, yes, it is okay to share it in the list. Few more questions: On 11/06/2011 12:17 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote: Dear Nikolay, is it okay to share this with our list? I can't really recommend any technical process, and I copy Sam rose for that, as for the governance 1) the community is the core and allowed permissionless contributions ; selection for excellence is done by accepted maintainers who have gained the confidence of the community and of each other 2) OSE-E is the formal entity responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of cooperation, but is not in command and control of the production process; it should be democratically managed Are there some examples where I can see this working? Or to read how it could be implemented. 3) Use the peer production license to allow free usage by other commons-friendly market entities, but make other for-profits pay (define set of minimum conditions) Sounds good! Any examples how to do it? 4) try to create your own cooperative entity for such activities, and create some kind of alliance of entities using the commons, which integrates various stakeholders How could this be done? Where can I find more info? Thank you very much! Great advices! Nikolay 5) develop an ethical funding strategy, based on crowdfunding; look into the open hardware central bank, Goteo hope that gives some ideas, Michel On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Nikolay Georgiev <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Michel, OSE Europe is growing! What we are doing is something very similar and very different than Factor E Farm. We want to create an open, dynamic, self-organizing network of people, communities, organizations, and open enterprises working towards an open society. Last week we saved Solar Fire, the solar concentrator, which Marcin couldn't open source few months ago, and showed that We Together can achieve more than one leader. http://oseeurope.org/ Can you give me some advices how to design this Open Process? I started adding notes on how to develop Open Governance: http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Europe/Open_Governance but I still have to learn more. Thank you! Nikolay -- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

I don’t understand the technicalities of how Bitcoin works, but am confident it will facilitate transactions. A very general idea is offer an opportunity for charitable contributions to support volunteer efforts by those who are unemployed, underemployed, employed under the radar, etc. An individual earns points (bitcoins) based on volunteer work and exchanges them for “cash” value. This would increase efficiency and returns to labor by deleting “wasteful” hours from the system. I assume there would have to be some type of safeguard to “insure” Givers against abuse (using credits for drugs) and cheating (faking hours) Maybe have community groups that “sign off” on the time spent be “certified” in some way. Within the community, you now can trade your time for product-but this method allows individuals worldwide to deposit into the pool. From: Michel Bauwens Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 6:07 PM To: P2P Foundation mailing list Cc: Thomas Greco -- thg ; Nikolay Georgiev Subject: Re: [P2P-F] OSE Europe - Open Process tell us more Natalie, generally speaking, OSE Europe could set up a complimentary currency credit commons like the WIr ... like Amy has done: http://p2pfoundation.net/Amy_Kirschner_on_the_Vermont_Sustainable_Exchange the idea is to allow partial payment in a complementary currency at first, Michel On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:15 AM, Natalie Golovin <[email protected]> wrote: Any thoughts re Setting Up “Charity” Banks using the new Electronic Currencies? From: Nikolay Georgiev Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 4:40 PM To: Michel Bauwens Cc: p2p-foundation ; Samuel Rose Subject: Re: [P2P-F] OSE Europe - Open Process Thank you Michel, yes, it is okay to share it in the list. Few more questions: On 11/06/2011 12:17 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote: Dear Nikolay, is it okay to share this with our list? I can't really recommend any technical process, and I copy Sam rose for that, as for the governance 1) the community is the core and allowed permissionless contributions ; selection for excellence is done by accepted maintainers who have gained the confidence of the community and of each other 2) OSE-E is the formal entity responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of cooperation, but is not in command and control of the production process; it should be democratically managed Are there some examples where I can see this working? Or to read how it could be implemented. 3) Use the peer production license to allow free usage by other commons-friendly market entities, but make other for-profits pay (define set of minimum conditions) Sounds good! Any examples how to do it? 4) try to create your own cooperative entity for such activities, and create some kind of alliance of entities using the commons, which integrates various stakeholders How could this be done? Where can I find more info? Thank you very much! Great advices! Nikolay 5) develop an ethical funding strategy, based on crowdfunding; look into the open hardware central bank, Goteo hope that gives some ideas, Michel On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Nikolay Georgiev <[email protected]> wrote: Hi Michel, OSE Europe is growing! What we are doing is something very similar and very different than Factor E Farm. We want to create an open, dynamic, self-organizing network of people, communities, organizations, and open enterprises working towards an open society. Last week we saved Solar Fire, the solar concentrator, which Marcin couldn't open source few months ago, and showed that We Together can achieve more than one leader. http://oseeurope.org/ Can you give me some advices how to design this Open Process? I started adding notes on how to develop Open Governance: http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Europe/Open_Governance but I still have to learn more. Thank you! Nikolay -- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation -- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ P2P Foundation - Mailing list http://www.p2pfoundation.net https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 6:40 AM, Nikolay Georgiev < [email protected]> wrote:

** Thank you Michel,

yes, it is okay to share it in the list. Few more questions:

On 11/06/2011 12:17 AM, Michel Bauwens wrote:

Dear Nikolay,

is it okay to share this with our list?

I can't really recommend any technical process, and I copy Sam rose for that, as for the governance

1) the community is the core and allowed permissionless contributions ; selection for excellence is done by accepted maintainers who have gained the confidence of the community and of each other

2) OSE-E is the formal entity responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of cooperation, but is not in command and control of the production process; it should be democratically managed

Are there some examples where I can see this working? Or to read how it could be implemented.

see: http://delicious.com/mbauwens/Floss-Foundations ; http://p2pfoundation.net/FLOSS_Foundations ; http://p2pfoundation.net/FLOSS_-_Governance (more generally: http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:Peergovernance)

3) Use the peer production license to allow free usage by other commons-friendly market entities, but make other for-profits pay (define set of minimum conditions)

Sounds good! Any examples how to do it?

Dmytry is the person to ask; at the p2p coop, we use it only 'symbolically' so far. The reason to use this license is to create an interlocking counter-economy of mutual support. See: http://p2pfoundation.net/Peer_Production_License

4) try to create your own cooperative entity for such activities, and create some kind of alliance of entities using the commons, which integrates various stakeholders

How could this be done? Where can I find more info?

the p2p coop has some documentation, which Franco Iacomella can share with you. perhaps we can organize a google hangout, for public consumption, on this topic, with me, Sam rose, you, and 2-3 other people? Also check out Janelle Orsi of the sustainable law center

Thank you very much! Great advices!

Nikolay

5) develop an ethical funding strategy, based on crowdfunding; look into the open hardware central bank, Goteo

hope that gives some ideas,

Michel

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 5:59 AM, Nikolay Georgiev < [email protected]> wrote:

...

Hi Michel,

OSE Europe is growing! What we are doing is something very similar and very different than Factor E Farm.

We want to create an open, dynamic, self-organizing network of people, communities, organizations, and open enterprises working towards an open society.

Last week we saved Solar Fire, the solar concentrator, which Marcin couldn't open source few months ago, and showed that We Together can achieve more than one leader. http://oseeurope.org/

Can you give me some advices how to design this Open Process?

I started adding notes on how to develop Open Governance: http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/OSE_Europe/Open_Governance but I still have to learn more.

Thank you!

Nikolay

-- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter

Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

-- Nikolay Georgiev Open Source Ecology Supporter

Website: http://www.nikolay-georgiev.net/blog/ Skype: nikolay.h.georgiev Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/nikolayhg Address: Darmstadt, Germany

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

yes exactly Kevin ... but the difference I insist on a open community in the middle, without IP, which can be worked on by several market entities and, that I now propose that the pp license internetworks them and can lead to further advances such as open book management, eventually leading to resource-based economics (at least as a distinct possibility) and ongoing mutual alignment and coordination based on transparency my take is that lasindias would be happy with a phyle-based capitalism, while my endeavour is more clearly post-capitalist, but I may be wrong, Michel On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 2:37 PM, Kevin Carson < [email protected]> wrote:

On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 5:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> wrote:

...

1) the community is the core and allowed permissionless contributions; selection for excellence is done by accepted maintainers who have gained the confidence of the community and of each other

2) OSE-E is the formal entity responsible for maintaining the infrastructure of cooperation, but is not in command and control of the production process; it should be democratically managed

3) Use the peer production license to allow free usage by other commons-friendly market entities, but make other for-profits pay (define set of minimum conditions)

4) try to create your own cooperative entity for such activities, and create some kind of alliance of entities using the commons, which integrates various stakeholders

5) develop an ethical funding strategy, based on crowdfunding; look into the open hardware central bank, Goteo

Would you say the structure you're recommending for OSE-Europe is turning into a kind of phyle along the lines described by David de Ugarte? i.e. a platform or ecosystem for supporting affiliated enterprises, with various local iterations of OSE-E plugging into the design commons and the support platforms? Perhaps some aspects of the history of Las Indias would be instructive. I'm cc'ing David and John Robb.

-- Kevin Carson Research Associate, Center for a Stateless Society http://c4ss.org Homebrew Industrial Revolution: A Low-Overhead Manifesto http://homebrewindustrialrevolution.wordpress.com Desktop Regulatory State: The Countervailing Power of Super-Empowered Individuals http://desktopregulatorystate.wordpress.com Organization Theory: A Libertarian Perspective http://mutualist.blogspot.com/2005/12/studies-in-anarchist-theory-of.html

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have you explained this vision in an english text? I would also suggest Neal and I interview you on this topic 4 a shareable interview bk we are doing, Michel On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:23 AM, David de Ugarte <[email protected]>wrote:

my take is that lasindias would be happy with a phyle-based capitalism,

...

while my endeavour is more clearly post-capitalist, but I may be wrong,

Not really, we are happy in a free market system but free market is not capitalism. Capitalism is about the power and access to capital. Phyle mutualism is about market, of course, but is not capitalism as capital is a common, invisible, good there. No power on capital when you have free access to capital.

The «source oriented» economy is about demerchantilization, meaning a comunist model for all society: no money, no merchandise... no interchange, just donation. Something as information is in the blogsphere. It needs some kind of abundance in phisical goods similar to informational abundance provided by distributed networks in Internet.

Probably productivity allows our generation to build a communist society in information and a free market mutualist (but also competitive) society in the goods markets... but no more.

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

ok, waiting 4 neal's ok, Micel On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:24 PM, David de Ugarte <[email protected]>wrote:

Nope :-( We are trying to organize a coop of translators in our group (as we could be an excellent first customer) but by the moment I have everything in Spanish...

On 10/11/11 03:51, Michel Bauwens wrote:

...

have you explained this vision in an english text?

I would also suggest Neal and I interview you on this topic 4 a shareable interview bk we are doing,

Michel

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:23 AM, David de Ugarte <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

my take is that lasindias would be happy with a phyle-based capitalism, while my endeavour is more clearly post-capitalist, but I may be wrong,

Not really, we are happy in a free market system but free market is not capitalism. Capitalism is about the power and access to capital. Phyle mutualism is about market, of course, but is not capitalism as capital is a common, invisible, good there. No power on capital when you have free access to capital.

The «source oriented» economy is about demerchantilization, meaning a comunist model for all society: no money, no merchandise... no interchange, just donation. Something as information is in the blogsphere. It needs some kind of abundance in phisical goods similar to informational abundance provided by distributed networks in Internet.

Probably productivity allows our generation to build a communist society in information and a free market mutualist (but also competitive) society in the goods markets... but no more.

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-**foundation<http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens**; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/**mbauwens<http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens>

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

On 10/11/11 13:56, John Robb wrote:

Would love to see David do an interview on this.

Also, would be more than happy to put out a request for translators interested in joining a virtual cooperative.

Wow! It would be the perfect «platform cooperative»! Only a virtual platform is needed with a system to address the customers to the translators according to their needs and pay the translators as soon as possible. Would we make it open introducing a ranking system as Juanto made for «Bazar»?

Sincerely,

JR ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *From:* Michel Bauwens <[email protected]> *To:* David de Ugarte <[email protected]> *Cc:* Neal Gorenflo <[email protected]>; P2P Foundation mailing list <[email protected]>; John Robb <[email protected]> *Sent:* Thursday, November 10, 2011 6:39 AM *Subject:* Re: [P2P-F] OSE Europe - Open Process

ok, waiting 4 neal's ok,

Micel

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 6:24 PM, David de Ugarte <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:

Nope :-( We are trying to organize a coop of translators in our group (as we could be an excellent first customer) but by the moment I have everything in Spanish...

On 10/11/11 03:51, Michel Bauwens wrote:

have you explained this vision in an english text?

I would also suggest Neal and I interview you on this topic 4 a shareable interview bk we are doing,

Michel

On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 7:23 AM, David de Ugarte <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote:

my take is that lasindias would be happy with a phyle-based capitalism, while my endeavour is more clearly post-capitalist, but I may be wrong,

Not really, we are happy in a free market system but free market is not capitalism. Capitalism is about the power and access to capital. Phyle mutualism is about market, of course, but is not capitalism as capital is a common, invisible, good there. No power on capital when you have free access to capital.

The «source oriented» economy is about demerchantilization, meaning a comunist model for all society: no money, no merchandise... no interchange, just donation. Something as information is in the blogsphere. It needs some kind of abundance in phisical goods similar to informational abundance provided by distributed networks in Internet.

Probably productivity allows our generation to build a communist society in information and a free market mutualist (but also competitive) society in the goods markets... but no more.

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens__; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop

-- P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net

Connect: http://p2pfoundation.ning.com; Discuss: http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation

Updates: http://del.icio.us/mbauwens; http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens; http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens

-- David de Ugarte Grupo Cooperativo de las Indias http://grupolasindias.coop