Bob / lynn: I wrote an article about a head design for software for a different economic system which you can read here if you are interested in such things and have a lot of time on your hands: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ewf9k1H7mBJEd8wjL0ZIJWU4dkoqLyDJVqhf3L1R... (but I don't think that is necessary to think about the question). Anyway, Michel wrote this response to a section of the article: "All these proposals require a social force willing to implement them. Peer producers , and their livelyhood organisations, are the only ones that can realistically achieve any proposal. There will be no phase transition without the prior establishment of a proto-mode of production and a social subject that is willing to construct and fight for such alternatives. I personally believe that 'labour-within-capital" can no longer be that subject, but the people who are actively constructing a new mode of value creation and distribution, can. This is why we need coops that do not function within capital, but within the accumulation of the commons." I commented: "I think this would be an interesting related subject for another discussion. You might be short-changing 'labor-within-capital'. The socialization of labor has included all of the P2P supply chain coordination elements from the 1990's onward, and a much deeper experience with robotification and what it all means than the various OSHW experiments. We were looking for a video of a speech by a member of a left workers organization in Detroit, where he reflected on his own changes of consciousness from the 1970's until now based on the changes in the auto industry, but blip.tv pulled it down. If we get into that discussion, we'll see how much we can recreate from memory." And Michel replied: " I think it is very important to make the distinction between the first phase of networking, pre-internet, which were reserved for corporations, and which led to globalization and a profound re=organization of the supply-chains . but still entirely within capital-labour logics, AND on the other hand, the 2nd phase of civic networking, which only started in the mid-nineties and led to massive amounts of social peer production, outside of the capital-labour relationship, where the emergence of peer producers / commoners is coupled to a massive deproletarisation of workers and a re-crafting (return to craft conditions) of their social conditions. One out of three workers will be outside the labor-with-wage condition by 2020." -- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/