Dear Orsan, alone you explain the Nw Labour List for terminated. Formally you can do it. Actually not, because the members have to make this decision. Lists are like our children. They will be independent, autonomous. In my diary I wrote: "Actually, I should reply Orsan. He remade his way alone. Quite understandable, but without perspectives." The conflicts and disorientation in the Nw Labour List have little to do with the persons. There are fundamental contradictions which crystallize at the persons. The questions stay always in the room: What future do we want? For what future do we work? And these questions directly accesses our personal perspectives. Do we want a simple, parasitic form of existence, where others take the concrete work for us (or have to do)? Or do we even make our contribution for that, what we use? We can also describe these poles as representative and parasitic elite instances, based on the slavery as a substructure or the self-organized, independent local economy based on democratic self-organization. We could now explain many details and describe the opportunities that exist today. But this is about the Nw Labour List. From the name, it may be a central instance of the discourse. But if they are as many lists flooded with any text from outside, without describing their own position and perspective, then this list is for the junkyard. And I suspect that this is done by design. We need the discourse of the active people who are searching on the go. They wish to formulate their questions freely, substantiate their answers freely and they want to pass this to the critical reflection. It is a space of theoretical reflection and interaction. Our practical work is done in our local reality. There arise the questions for which we need answers. But that also means, that without these practical fields, there are no questions. This is perhaps the reason why the Nw Labour List so much slipped into the arbitrariness, and its full potential has been stored in the refrigerator. A similar situation we find in the lists of the IGF (Internet Governance Forum), IUF (Internet Ungovernance Forum), ISOC (Internet Society) and the like. There is now generally recognized that telecommunications in the form of an Internet, a transport system for digital data in packet form, technologically is very simple. Difficult it is only because a giant parasitic apparatus was constructed about and this now is fighting for its preservation. And this we find also in the representative political systems, all of which are superfluous and fight for its preservation. And to our conflicts in the "Commons" environment to make it clear: even this comes from the conservation struggles of superfluous parasitic structures. That on this basis the gentle form of exclusion of other opinions is replaced with fascist exclusion practice, it is clear. Or? I do not intend to participate in farewell ceremonies to the Nw Labour List. If it is needed, it is created. If not, it does not arise or is dissolved. It is not long ago that you wanted to leave the list for personal reasons, or at least pass the Administration. In your critical reflection to the financing of "commons" oriented organizations by parasitic robbers realized that your view is not yet completely tarnished. In this sensor and these feelings you should always leave you. Also the churches talk of service to others and think about the robbery that they organize. And your friend Peter Waterman, active for years in the trade unions? Be careful with such "friends". In this list, the class struggle is raging. The list members do not engage in class struggle. The list itself is the subject of the class struggle. many greetings, willi Boa Vista, Brasil Am 07/05/2016 um 17:37 schrieb Orsan Senalp:
Dear Peter, Willi, Bob and all,
Today is exactly the 3rd anniversary of this lists creation in 2013.
I would like to thank all who has joined the list, contributed or not, and made it sort of thoughtful and, at least for me, very useful exchange space.
Intention has never been to create what the list has become; yet the sources, individuals and how the world evolved around in time let things happen this way. Although idea was something more comprehensive, collectively managed, and somewhat focused discussion I can take responsibility on my part for moving away from that perspective and negative aspects emerged in the communication that took place on this space; as well as rather unproductive aspects of it. Like spamming and making people spend time and energy to read or erase emails; such could have been used in better ways; no matter how large or small they were.
I accept that we could not manage any labour networking, nor networking our labour towards some concrete end results. Yet I hope times and energies put here by all would have contributed and would be contributing in positive change somewhere or sometime else.
So, instead of being have to get rid of this or other person, I believe time has arrived to get rid of the space itself which completed part of its mission -yet failed in others.
Anyone who wish to do so can download the email content from archives page. if you like to do that you ca do it in coming months. We have had already used lots of server space voluntarily provided by a friend (Albi) for free, so can be good to release that space for other uses. So by first of July I suppose the list can be deleted from where it is hosted now.
Although I do not agree with the positions they took in passing 3 years of politics we owe thanks to organizations -about which I have been harshly critical- like Tni and transform which also made this experience possible. I hope Walter, Marco, Hilary and others of course would excuse me and accept my appreciation.
Thanks all again, and stay in touch with solidarity!
Best,
Orsan
On 06 May 2016, at 18:40, peter waterman <[email protected]> wrote:
In so far as this amounts to a further ad hominem attack, which makes no single reference to the content of posted item, I offer the following choice to Orsan and to other contributors to this list:
1. Get rid of Willi
or
2. Get rid of me.
The principle of tolerance is qualified. It implies place/space for people who believe in dialogue and with a dialogical mode of expression. Ad hominem attacks are the first refuge of Stalinists or other Vanguardists who think they have they have the keys to the kingdom of rectitude and both the right and duty to shit on others without reading what they say.
I don't mind moving my efforts elsewhere.
PeterW
On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 5:50 PM, willi uebelherr <[email protected]> wrote:
Am 06/05/2016 um 02:29 schrieb Peter Waterman: http://www.socialistproject.ca/bullet/1254.php
Dear Peter,
mostly all this "Labour Leader" are corrupt. This people never want to go in direction to our future. They have only her private interests. And this everywhere on our planet.
many greetings, willi Boa Vista, Brasil
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