---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: larry victor <[email protected]> Date: Fri, Jul 1, 2016 at 1:37 PM Subject: sysnets-P2P, Greece, BREXIT-Trump-TPP, Chaos/Order/Disorder, Sarason, RYSE To: [email protected] Cc: Tom Greco <[email protected]>, albert lundquist <[email protected]>, Alex Gagnon <[email protected]>, Dan Davidson <[email protected]>, "Dan R.D." <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>, Jamie Lantz < [email protected]>, MINGO <[email protected]>, Joe Brewer < [email protected]>, Michael Gentry <[email protected]>, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]>, Linda Ellinor <[email protected]>, Fabio Barone <[email protected]>, David Pinto <[email protected]>, David Braden <[email protected]>, HELENE FINIDORI <[email protected]>, Lynne <[email protected]>, George Por < [email protected]>, Glistening Deepwater < [email protected]>, John Ringland <[email protected]>, Rosa Zubizarreta <[email protected]>, Alexander Robert Laszlo < [email protected]>, Anthony Judge <[email protected]> Friends & Colleagues, relevant thoughts of the day - in the order they came to mind, although those further down may be more significant. I found this url interesting, a short voice history of the Greece entrapment - general. Economic systems trapping countries into debt. Long ago I read such stories online. But, they are few and spotty. When we see them we think that the media is covering it, but it really isn't. How much do we over-estimate the knowledge others have about what we know? https://soundcloud.com/upstreampodcast/greek-financial-crisis-explained-mari... Might the Global Corporate System be behind BREXIT and the future breakup of EU. The corporate global systems wants to isolate all "governments" and make them only worker bees for them. Our election may lead to the breakdown (sever weakening) of the Federal System of the USA. USA military and NATO could continue as military arms of corporations. It won't be explicit. "Governments" will continue to be presented as "fronts" on which to focus and anger of the public. TPP or Trump? If Trump is elected, he won't last - unless he can be used. TPP will be approved - so long as the Global Corps Rule. Hillary will approve a slightly modified TPP. What system would be best to handle Real Climate Change, Total Global Corporate or Waring Nations? Unified nations won't be permitted by the Global Corporate Elite. If the governments are controlled by the Corps, and the people are convinced of this, then the people may abandon trying to reform governments and begin action against the real bosses, or go UPLIFT. Read today that the Northern Jet Stream dipped below the equator - for the first time in recorded history. Have you seen any Order - Disorder ratio comparisons for humankind? Hard to measure, but the degree of order today may be illusionary. Also, established system show disorder; activists show chaos. I like to distinguish Disorder from Chaos. From it's Greek origins, Chaos is the font of Order. Order Emerges from Chaos. Disorder emerges from Order. Imagine superimposing many songs or pictures. Perception would be chaos, but underneath are many orders waiting to be seen or heard if filtered. The many new activist processes emergent today, when not coordinated, interfere as chaos. About two decades ago, when I first distinguished between nets and systems, I proposed that as a whole entity, nets can't do anything other than the simple sum of the doings of its nodes. By adding constraints on the relations between nodes in a net, the net shifts to being (the skeleton of) systems, which can do more than the simple sum of their components. P2P may be demonstrating impotence, in spite of the very high quality of activity in the nets, because they see themselves in conflict with systems - which from the net perspective are too top-down and authoritarian. Network perspectives may have too much "individualism" ideology. I need to develop this and get the P2P Foundation's analysis. I favor a dynamic of sysnets alternating between being primarily networks and occasional formation of temporary systems, returning back to more open networks. My poor memory just brought up that Seymour Sarason wrote deeply on the conflict between nets and systems in his two volume reporting on his 1970s experimentation with *Resource Exchange Networks (REN)*. https://www.amazon.com/Challenge-Resource-Exchange-Network-Vol/dp/0914797468... Reading his Wikipedia bio and other more current reports of his great productivity, I am very disappointed that there is no mention (other than a listing in his full list of publications) of this landmark work. I now realize that his work in the 1970s foresaw the P2P movement, and a REN remains a network type that we need. I now see the relationship between an REN and Zuboff's *Support Economy*, which I have generalized to a SEAFnet. This merits a separate blog post. If P2P isn't aware of Sarason, they need be. George Carlin calls for the need of UPLIFT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsL6mKxtOlQ&feature=youtu.be XKIUHTEZCATL Martinez (now 16) is someone to watch: http://www.earthguardians.org/ryse/ My latest post: http://nuet.us/2016/06/30/are-we-all-on-the-titanic/ Enough for now. Larry/nuet http://nuet.us/ -- Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: http://commonstransition.org P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/