---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> Date: Tue, Oct 18, 2011 at 8:28 AM Subject: Fwd: Fwd: Global petition for currency reform To: Michel Bauwens <[email protected]>To: Tim Reeves < [email protected]>, [email protected], [email protected] Cc: Josh Ryan-Collins <[email protected]>, Leander Bindewald <[email protected]>, Anna-Lisa Schmalz < [email protected]>, Matthew Slater <[email protected]> Thanks Tim. your alternative proposal sounds interesting : http://regional-economic-communities.info/concept/market-community/liquidity... Another idea I was considering, as to increase demand for a local currency ( backed by shares ? ) , while enabling non-monetary investments and providing a form of non-mainstream currency insurance in case of a debasement or sudden inflation of euros : to enable transfer ( as investment ) of property into the local networked economy without payment of euros to the initial owners ( under legal models that limit payment of taxes in euros ? - a combination of legal structures ? including foundations ? some kind of Community Land Trust ? or a LLP ? ). I imagine the former owners could become shareholders of a specific legal construct ( including something similar to a custodian ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custodian_bank ), with users of the regional economy and/or the specific infrastructure progressively buying over the shares- with its own internal currency ? - , under conditions initially defined within the contract, with a local currency ( instead of legal tender currency ). I could also imagine, to limit inflation, that the repurchasing by the local economy of such shares could be done gradually, according to the growth of the alternative currency based economy, in effect guaranteeing the shares ( and the currency ) with its projected production capacity ? Ps: I did not check the validity of the effect of my proposals on the system yet - just brainstorming for now :) Note : In the UK and in the US, some legal constructs such as "Limited Liability Partnerships" http://p2pfoundation.net/Limited_Liability_Partnership http://p2pfoundation.net/Category:OpenCapital On Mon, Oct 17, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Tim Reeves <[email protected]> wrote:
Dear friends,
great idea, Dante, to have the elderly rent out a floor for CC and spend the CC-Income on home care.
Surely the growing undercurrent of fear of a crash, and the increasing realisation that our current system is flawed, are already providing the willingness to at leats try alternative currencies. Of course, all further proactive measures welcome!
Regarding the GROK construction, yes, my wife and I have extended the concept to provide 2 ways to get a credit facility without having to spend old money - activity points and affinity groups, see
http://regional-economic-communities.info/concept/market-community/liquidity...
Unfortunately the german website has not been updated yet, but the english one is consistently on the new understanding.
*Mit herzlichen Grüßen,*
*Tim Reeves*
Flurstraße 10, D-85221 Dachau
Tel. 08131 - 273 653 Fax 08131 - 273 654
Email: [email protected]
Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam)
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Am 17.10.2011 01:12, schrieb Dante-Gabryell Monson:
Hi Josh,
nice to get acquainted indeed.
I believe that Leander has more experience in relation to the C3 in Paraguay ( Leander, if I remember properly, you went to Paraguay as to find out more about the C3 there ? )
I am interested in understanding what can create demand for complementary currencies, in the current economic and political context.
For example, in Brussels there is high demand for housing, including on the rent market.
I like the idea of having house owners that already paid off their mortgage ( in mainstream money ), to - partly - enable the payment of rent in alternative currencies.
Potentially elderly people in need for house care. It could be a mutual credit system, with elderly people benefiting from support by getting into credit, while moving back towards positive by renting out flats in the upper floors of their house in alternative mutual credit currency.
In this particular case, there is less dependency on mainstream currency, as services and an already paid off mortgage reduce a dependency on mainstream currency, except for the payment of taxes. ( on the house ? )
Ideally, I would also like to find out a way for a post-financial crisis insurance to converge the investments needs in mainstream currency as to enable more autonomy in a variety of production, as to reduce long term dependency on mainstream currency / demonetize. ( the business model being : reduced cost in euros as investment covers cost for long term consumption through producing oneself / through the local economy, and increased resilience and autonomy providing use value insurance in case of mainstream currency systemic crisis ).
The grok model , guaranteeing credit through investment shares, is an interesting model ( though initially potentially discriminating people without mainstream currency investments )
Forwarded conversation Subject: Global petition for currency reform ------------------------
From: *Tim Reeves* <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 3:43 PM To: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]>, Josh Ryan-Collins < [email protected]>, Leander Bindewald < [email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>, Matthew Slater < [email protected]>, Thomas Greco <[email protected]> Cc: Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>
Dear friends,
my friend Oliver and I have the idea to start a global petition for currency and financing reform, something so simple and easy to understand that pretty much everyone longing for reform can line up behind it. An online action similar to those of Avaaz. The question is, which 3 to max. 4 simple tenets should be used? Of course we have some ideas, but I don't want to prejudice you. We would be most grateful if you could take five minutes to reply with what you think could be so simple that we can get literally millions of signatures to it.
Many thanks and wishing you all well! -- *Mit herzlichen Grüßen,*
*Tim Reeves*
Flurstraße 10, D-85221 Dachau
Tel. 08131 - 273 653 Fax 08131 - 273 654
Email: [email protected]
Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam)
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Sonst im Web: lebensmittel.ttdachau.de timreeves.de gemeinwohl.info<http://www.gemeinwohl.info/> seminarraum-dachau.lasslos.net
---------- From: *Matthew Slater* <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:07 PM To: Tim Reeves <[email protected]> Cc: Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]>, Josh Ryan-Collins < [email protected]>, Leander Bindewald < [email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco < [email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>
Hi Tim et al.
In my opinion, the one thing that would change everything is "*abolish legal tender*". This would break the banking cartel, allowing currencies to compete in the marketplace.
However I have some concerns about the use of a petition as a strategic tool. 1. How would you get a useful number of signatures? 2. Who would you present it to, considering that it is a matter in principle for national governments, but they are in thrall to banks and actually don't understand how money works at all?
My activism is in a different direction altogether. In keeping with the occupation movement which is definitely flavour of the month, I am working with the indignants to educate them about money, rather than making specific demands to deaf authorities. The indignants are, wisely I think, avoiding ideologies which will divide them. Talking to the Spanish who achieved politically nothing, they are very happy with what happened. They feel their country 'woke up' this year.
Working with other currency activists, I have launched this design competition:
http://99designs.com/other-design-tasks/contests/help-occupy-wall-street-des... (Please circulate, blog and tweet about this!) I am also helping to organise a 'day of money' teaching on Wall street, and maybe London too if that occupation sticks.
I think it is important also to teach that when you understand money, you don't need government cooperation, 'we the people' can make our own. But of course I would sign any petition you were likely to put out.
Matthew-- Find out more about my work in local money systems My personal web site <http://matslats.net> including my blog, Adventures in mutual credit <http://matslats.net/complementary_currencies> Community Forge <http://communityforge.net> Community Currency Magazine <http://ccmag.net> plus Interview <http://agoristradio.com/?p=338> on Agorist Radio, May 2011 (70 mins) Article in shareable.net<http://www.shareable.net/blog/living-without-money-is-an-act-of-community>
---------- From: *Dante-Gabryell Monson* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 1:28 AM To: Tim Reeves <[email protected]>, Matthew Slater <[email protected]
Tim and Matthew,
I like your approaches.
Yes, abolishing legal tender. Though, as there may be a hack around this ( see below ), I may more specifically put an emphasis on the widening of currency acceptance for the payment of taxes.
May I share your proposals and questions ?
//
Example regarding side stepping legal tender :
As far as I remember, certain transactions using jetons as payment tokens ( some form of "alternative currencies" ? ) , such as laverettes/washing machine places, or snack/drink automated machines,
first ask for the payment before receiving the product.
In addition to the obvious element of avoiding the client to leave without paying "the automat", it may in part due to the legal tender issue which says the vendor ultimately has to accept legal tender as payment.
Yet *if the payment is done before hand for the product ( or service ),* *the legal tender issue can be side stepped.*
Forwarded conversation Subject: Global petition for currency reform ------------------------
From: *Tim Reeves* <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 3:43 PM To:
---------- From: *Matthew Slater* <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Oct 15, 2011 at 4:07 PM To: Tim Reeves <[email protected]> Cc:
---------- From: *Tim Reeves* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:30 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Matthew Slater <[email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco <[email protected]>, Leander Bindewald < [email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>, Josh Ryan-Collins <[email protected]>
Hi Dante,
great to hear from you again!
Legal Tender: Yes, I agree completely, it must be abolished. Without wanting to say too much right now, my first suggestion for axiom #2 has been "The state monopoly on the provision of money must be abolished and regional currencies encouraged." And yes, not just the plastic discs to stick in vending machines but also the bonus points you get nowadays for miles on the train or plane are forms of alternative, or at least intermediate, currency. However, you only get the plastic discs or bonus points when you first purchase them/something using legal tender, so it's not sooo much of a sidestep. The Grok, as proposed in the concept of Regional Economic Communities, does sidestep legal tender pretty much completely (and its proposed sister, the Mutual [description coming], absolutely completely).
Accepting alternate (regional?) currencies for taxes - yes, I think this should be explicitly declared legal, but it could not be enforced, since it requires a flourishing currency before taxes can be paid in it. It should be an option for local and regional authorities, and even one which should be encouraged, not just tolerated.
Regarding sharing proposals: In principle yes, but would you mind holding on a day or two? I'm meeting Oliver tomorrow afternoon and we'll be reviewing where we stand. Thanks for your understanding, will be in touch.
@All: Still eager to receive your suggestions for 3 to 4 simple basic axioms to reform the currency system - many thanks! Am 16.10.2011 01:28, schrieb Dante-Gabryell Monson:
---------- From: *Josh Ryan-Collins* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 9:52 PM To: Tim Reeves <[email protected]> Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]>, Matthew Slater < [email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco < [email protected]>, Leander Bindewald <[email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>
I would agree with Dante (nice to make your virtual acquaintance Dante) on not going for the abolition of legal tender. There are multiple risks with that approach 1) a lot of people on the left and generally will simply not buy it and think we are monetary 'cranks'; 2) some people on the right we might not like to associate ourselves with (particularly goldbugs/free banking schools) will love it! and, most importantly c) there is very little (perceived) chance of ever happening so it will put people off bothering to sign a petition.
So much better to try to national government (or local governments) to accept CCs as taxes. STRO have successfully managed this with their C3 in Uruguay, here in UK Brixton and Bristol are getting pretty close with our local authorities.
Given the crisis we are in, its important we suggest policies that will have an immediate impact on relieving the situation. CC formalising is more a medium-term project. For me these would include:
1. Government/Treasury should have right to force Central Bank to use QE for productive investment (e.g. transport infrastructure, green infrastructure, or loans to SMEs) not to buy financial assets from banks 2. Financial Policy Committee/CB (in US the Fed I guess) should have right to suppress speculative credit creation by banks and encourage productive (e.g. through differential leverage ratios which Adair Turner has suggested) 3. Longer term - banks should be broken up (more needed in UK than US) and cooperative and mutual ownership forcibly introduced
The above combined with regional/local currencies accepted by govts for tax would be a good combo...
http://www.neweconomics.org/blog/2011/10/07/quantitative-easing-wont-help-th...
Josh Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Skype: timothy.reeves (mit Webcam)
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---------- From: Matthew Slater <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> To: Tim Reeves <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> My personal web site<http://matslats.net/> including my blog, Adventures in mutual credit<http://matslats.net/complementary_currencies> Community Forge<http://communityforge.net/> Community Currency Magazine<http://ccmag.net/> plus Interview<http://agoristradio.com/?p=338> on Agorist Radio, May 2011 (70 mins) Article in shareable.net< http://www.shareable.net/blog/living-without-money-is-an-act-of-community>
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---------- From: *Matthew Slater* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 10:37 PM To: Josh Ryan-Collins <[email protected]> Cc: Tim Reeves <[email protected]>, "<[email protected]>" < [email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco <[email protected]>, Leander Bindewald <[email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>
Hey Josh, The last time I remember the government responding to the wishes of the people was after Thatcher was ousted in 1990 after the poll tax riots in 1989. The House of Commons is a den of thieves, controlled by plutocrats, and petitioning MPs attributes them with a legitimacy they long ago forfeited. So yes from a policy perspective I'm off the scale cranky, some would call me an anarchist. I say we should ignore national governments who with four decades notice failed to address climate change or peak oil; we should stop working for The Man and start rebuilding real, local economies with people-centred values.
Tim, I think our energies are much better directed into demonstrating to the masses that local, resilient communities offer a better way of life than the debt-bubble corporatocracy to which some would have us believe there is no alternative. Latest from me... Community Forge is working with Community Tools to give social networking sites to every transition town; community exchange accounting and the virtual marketplace will be but two features in a platform intended to help progressive communities manage and organise their affairs. We intend that it would be managed and developed by a loose federation of communities.
Matthew
---------- From: *Josh Ryan-Collins* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:14 PM To: Matthew Slater <[email protected]> Cc: Tim Reeves <[email protected]>, "<[email protected]>" < [email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco <[email protected]>, Leander Bindewald <[email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>
I think its vital to have both activities going on at the same time - we must have massive public protest, people on the streets, grassroots action etc. in order to force governments to do stuff, but we must also give them the tools and make the arguments - because most of them have know idea how money works as we know and that's part of the reason they keep listening to the plutocrats and the bankers who they think do know best...
J
---------- From: *Tim Reeves* <[email protected]> Date: Sun, Oct 16, 2011 at 11:37 PM To: Josh Ryan-Collins <[email protected]> Cc: Matthew Slater <[email protected]>, "<[email protected]>" < [email protected]>, Oliver Sachs <[email protected]>, Thomas Greco <[email protected]>, Leander Bindewald <[email protected]>, Mark Burton <[email protected]>
Dear friends,
many thanks for all the valuable input!
I had a long meeting and discussion today with my friend Oliver, the guy who actually started this ball rolling. Perhaps it's time to reign in the horses for a bit, since when I wrote to you I only mentioned the petition aspect, and our deepening discussion makes it ever more clear that that is indeed only one (major) aspect, on the political side of things. The activist side and self-empowering of individuals and local communities is indeed just as important to us. We believe that Olivers idea can address * both* aspects simultaneously and highly effectively, by being palatable to a very broad range of people thirsting for real change. We'll discuss it further tomorrow and work on getting it formulated, and then get back to you asap, asking for your support to really get things moving, as a cooperative initiative.
Am 16.10.2011 23:14, schrieb Josh Ryan-Collins:
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