Thanks Tadit! interesting comments and references you provide! I did not know about William Black http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_K._Black http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8CqaHTygSc ps: I am not for the gold standard. the site I gave was an easy reference to japan's debt or to the fed buying a great deal of treasury securities, found via first google entries. On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 2:20 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dante,
the website you provided the link to seems to be signed onto the gold standard concept which makes it probably libertarian in nature. It also is conflating fiat currencies as all fiat currencies, and does not identify privately issued currency versus sovereignty based issuance of currency. The US currency system is currently privately controlled. In a floating value currency exchange process, yes, currencies will both gain and lose value. That was also the case under a gold standard due to the private speculation and hoarding of gold Given that the US Federal Reserve is essentially a trade association of private banking interests, it operates as a wealth extraction mechanism. If most of the wealth is extracted their owners will have most of the marbles and the game will be over. Goldman Sachs is the epitome of the process. The privatization of the currency and central banking system was supposed to provide greater stability. In fact much of the prior bank panics were caused by the Wall Street banks. Apparently it was the TARP program which sucked up the toxic assets. TALF looks instead to have been used as a sort of quantitative easing process. On the inflation of fiat currencies again having a low level of inflation built into the currency controls is also in their interests as a trade association, much like compound interest. William Black's articles and videos are particularly helpful in understanding what is going on behind the Oz curtain. He is exceptionally clear spoken, imo. On "collapse" looking at the effect of quantitative easing in Japan, it looks like our future, except that as a nation they have a much higher savings rate. Notably Japan and Germany have used used the devaluing of their currencies as a way to inflate asymmetric trade with the US. This usually expressed in terms a "weak" Yen and a "strong" dollar. China is using their foreign exchange reserve for different purposes, largely to buy up assets in the US and elsewhere as a way to pre-empt the collapse of the US and Euro economies. The situation with the "bad debt" in Germany is also a product of making commissions off of "ninja" loans, but at a country level. The EMU was for any real analysis designed to fail from the beginning because relative to moving toward fair and balanced trade it is not in the interests of short or long term gains by the major banks for that to happen on a short to medium range basis. Wray does a good job of explaining this in this recent article:
http://www.economonitor.com/lrwray/2011/09/29/euro-toast-anyone-the-meltdown...
Tadit
On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 06:17:42 -0400, Dante-Gabryell Monson <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks, in relation to TALF, the Fed directly giving loans in exchange for co-lateral, what happens if ( they manage to make ) the economy collapse ?
All this co-lateral "owned" by the FED ?
How big is TALF currently ?
Fed already seems to take in 80 percent of Treasury securities...
http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ponzi-scheme-the-federal-reserve...
Note : Geithner, before being at the Treasury, was at the central bank of New York :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner
On Thu, Sep 29, 2011 at 12:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Dante, I believe that the TALF program is how the US Fed. Reserve "bought"/exchanged so called toxic assets from their private trade association members in exchange for digital money, also known as digital money issues and in another context as qual
On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:07:41 -0400, Dante-Gabryell Monson
<[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks Tadit !
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 1:15 PM, <[email protected]> wrote:
Just one of the issues that has been averted discussion in the EMU
meltdown is the patently bad debt being held by German and French banks was the result of the same dynamic as occurred fir the US. What Geithner is now advocating for the EMU is a bail-out of those banks, it is not about the resuscitation of the EMU economies. It has almost always been framed a problem created by the PIIIGS countries, though the whole concept of the EMU/EU as it was perpetrated was predicted by informed people to implode. This is what world government in service to the plutocrats looks like, think Bilderberg. Subverting the nominal socialist and pro-labor governments was part of the take down. "Quantitative easing" both in Japan and more recently elsewhere has never been about supporting the productive parts of those economies. This is how economic illiteracy is exploited. Tadit
On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:31:41 -0400, Dante-Gabryell Monson < [email protected]> wrote:
Would be interesting to compare such figures with other aging "developed"
countries ? Possibly similar kinds of figures can be found ?
///
Perhaps a major question is "who owns the debt" ?
///
In the case of Japan, debt is at 227 percent in 2010, but is almost entirely Japanese owned.
///
As for External Debt , some countries like Germany or Japan have export surpluses to compensate it ?
http://www.indexmundi.com/**germany/debt_external.html>
<htt**p://www.indexmundi.com/**germany/debt_external.html< http://www.indexmundi.com/germany/debt_external.html> >
///
What I am interested in, is Central Banks buying over debt, with money they create out of thin air, increasing the monetary mass, but eventually leading to debasing the currency.
When looking at who owns US debt, it is not as much the Chinese or the Japanese, as the Private Central Bank / "The Fed" ?
( I remember a chart, where one could see that one of the big US debt buyers is the federal reserve... - but I can not find that reference right now )
here is another link :
http://**theeconomiccollapsebl** og.com/**archives/ponzi-**scheme-the-**< http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/**archives/ponzi-scheme-the-**> federal-reserve-bought-****approximately-80-percent-of-u-**** s-treasury-securities-issued-****in-2009<http://** theeconomiccollapseblog.com/**archives/ponzi-scheme-the-** federal-reserve-bought-**approximately-80-percent-of-u-** s-treasury-securities-issued-**in-2009< http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/ponzi-scheme-the-federal-reserve...
>
as for other US debt owners
http://www.guardian.co.uk/****news/datablog/2011/jul/15/us-****<; http://www.guardian.co.uk/**news/datablog/2011/jul/15/us-**> debt-how-big-who-owns<http://**www.guardian.co.uk/news/** datablog/2011/jul/15/us-debt-**how-big-who-owns< http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jul/15/us-debt-how-big-who-owns
>
In the case of the US dollar, freeloading on the dollar being a world reserve currency ?
///
http://www.2point6billion.com/****news/2010/03/04/china-debt-**96-** <http://www.2point6billion.com/**news/2010/03/04/china-debt-96-**> percent-of-gdp-by-2011-4261.****html<http://www.** 2point6billion.com/news/2010/**03/04/china-debt-96-percent-** of-gdp-by-2011-4261.html< http://www.2point6billion.com/news/2010/03/04/china-debt-96-percent-of-gdp-b...
>
The United States’ debt to GDP ratio is 94 percent, the United Kingdom is at 380 percent, Japan at 227 percent, Greece at 115 percent and Spain at 70 percent.
//
http://www.**currentusanationa**ldebt.com/**National-Debt-of-** Japan.html< http://currentusanationaldebt.com/**National-Debt-of-Japan.html> <http://www.** currentusanationaldebt.com/**National-Debt-of-Japan.html< http://www.currentusanationaldebt.com/National-Debt-of-Japan.html> >
Japan carries a huge debt load, but it is different than what other countries carry. The key issue is not the debt itself, but who owns it. In this case, the Japanese debt is owned almost entirely by the citizens and companies of the country.
On Wed, Sep 28, 2011 at 11:18 AM, robert searle <[email protected]
wrote:
I think the following maybe of interest. > > *Germany Has 5 Trillion Euros of Hidden Debt, Handelsblatt Says< > http://www.bloomberg.com/****news/2011-09-23/germany-has-5-****<; http://www.bloomberg.com/**news/2011-09-23/germany-has-5-**> > trillion-euros-of-hidden-debt-****handelsblatt-says.html<http:** > //www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-**09-23/germany-has-5-trillion-** > euros-of-hidden-debt-**handelsblatt-says.html< http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/germany-has-5-trillion-euros-of-hid...
> > > > > > > * > www.bloomberg.com > Germany’s public debt is much higher than officially shown, > Handelsblatt > reported, citing calculations by Bernd Raffelhueschen, an economics > professor at Freiburg University. > > ______________________________****_________________ > P2P Foundation - Mailing list > http://www.p2pfoundation.net > https://lists.ourproject.org/****cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-** > **foundation< https://lists.ourproject.org/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-**foundation> > <https://lists.**ourproject.org/cgi-bin/**mailman/listinfo/p2p-** > foundation< https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation> > > >
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