---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Tom Crowl <[email protected]> Date: Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 11:00 AM Subject: Re: [projectvrm] One-click micro payments, membership monopoly, monied "like" button To: Cc: Andy Oram <[email protected]>, Peter Cranstone < [email protected]>, Dan Blum <[email protected]>, ProjectVRM list <[email protected]>, Michel Bauwens < [email protected]>, John S James <[email protected]>, Kevin Cox < [email protected]>, David Brin <[email protected]>, Douglas Rushkoff <[email protected]> *Linked below a very worthwhile history of governance as well as its problems and pitfalls. In my opinion no VRM solution can take hold w/o addressing the declining power of citizenship.* *Can the Internet democratise capitalism?* http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2014/02/21/can-the-internet-democratise-capitalism...
From the piece:
"The Internet is a wonderful leveller. But democracy requires a great deal more than mere 'levelling'. Primarily,* it requires political institutions that enable the economically weak to have a decisive say on policy against the interests of the rich and powerful." * "Citizenship (including formal liberties) is distributed liberally to all citizens... but its reach is confined to a small political sphere; a sphere which is increasingly losing out to a separate economic sphere where all the capacities to change people's lives (for better or for worse) congregate but where citizenship is irrelevant." *Tom Crowl* http://CulturalEngineer.blogspot.com On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Tom Crowl <[email protected]>wrote:
Thanks for your comments. Though correct me if I'm wrong but I believe you meant to address them to my reply...
*Tom Crowl* http://CulturalEngineer.blogspot.com
On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 9:43 AM, William Dyson <[email protected]>wrote:
Andy Thanks so much for your reply and wonderful observations !!!
I have a deep background in Political Philosophy and Public Policy. I come from a life of struggle and poverty in the United States.
I have been writing code/developing for over 15 years. 10 years ago I developed one of the first micropayment systems for the music industry while living in Europe. It was itunes before itunes existed.
I also have a background in "Capital" markets having been a technical consultant for private investment banks in Europe and the United States.
I have devoted my life to creating technology that brings about CHANGE that is outside of current dominant frameworks of politics and economics.
I understand the issues around "* NO generally useful civic-oriented, neutral vehicle has emerged to my knowledge" *and have of course made sure that this issue is addressed in the efemurl platform
All Power to All of the People
William
10. We Want, Land, Bread, Housing, Education, Clothing, Justice, Peace, and* People's Community Control of Modern Technology *
Follow me on efemurl <http://efemurl.com/?action=timeline&username=eugenedebs>
On February 21, 2014 at 9:14:47 AM, Tom Crowl ([email protected]<//[email protected]>) wrote:
Andy, William,
RE both of these endeavors (and others similar)
Great ideas BUT...
Without a functionality not available elsewhere... they'll have a very difficult road building sufficient penetration to have an effect. (in other words reach a tip-over point whereby its growth becomes self-reinforcing).
The couple of times I've attended the PdF (Personal Democracy Forum) there have always been a number of endeavors seeking to accomplish similar things. There have been some small successes... (Like MeetIUp)...
*But NO generally useful civic-oriented, neutral vehicle has emerged to my knowledge. *
While the Internet industry has become a fiefdom for privately held landscapes (e,g, Facebook and Twitter are landscapes as are other transaction platforms) finding the balance between the public and private good seems beyond their understanding or interest...
*The micropayment is the key to what must be a 'public' piece of the Internet landscape.*
And is the catalyst for such a community-oriented platform.
Its nature requires scale* from the start... a Manhattan Project for community involvement... perhaps unfortunately requiring the co-operation of both the Internet and Financial sectors. (In other words... to effect change ... as Robert Frost said: "The way out is always through").
But both these sectors are unfortunately incredibly self-satisfied and confident of their own nobility and engagement in "God's Work"... and hence incredibly resistant to self-examination.
P.S. Its not just about funding candidates and causes... but rather altering the user's relationship to and understanding about money, governance, scale and their position in this new landscape... as well as their own responsibility in these areas. Moreover, in time I believe it will lead to LESS money in politics, MORE transparency, more self-organization for local community purposes... and finally less of a 'White Collar Government<http://www.amazon.com/White-Collar-Government-Economic-American-Politics/dp/022608714X>" forming a natural counter-force to the excessive wealth concentration which has always been a death knell for Enlightenment-oriented societies. Sadly, solutions may rely upon some of those who benefit by the problem.
*Tom Crowl* http://CulturalEngineer.blogspot.com
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Tom Crowl <[email protected]>wrote:
*The reason for the connection between currency and democracy (in my mind at least):*
Is rooted in how both are connected to *decision*. A decision is an intention + an action
Whether for an individual or a civilization... aside from chance and physical circumstance... survival is solely determined by decision.
No matter the basis of that/those decision(s).
Money at root is a technology for creating chains of decision made necessary by scale (where people don't know or trust each other).
Democracy is a technology (or more properly some collection of technologies) for making certain collective decisions.
Money creation... the methods for its introduction into a social body... as well as its use in advocacy and support... are ALL political acts.
This is tied into some of the reasons that for five years I've been stating that the natural conjunction between the essential need for a speech-related micropayment... which naturally leads to a unified core... can also function as a tool for association... AND form a natural home for alternative currencies...
The only difference with the endeavor you cite is that I feel its more practical to build this neutral civic hub from traditional currencies... and I didn't know or use all the computer jargon back in '08.
And when I see the crap the industry falls over for its very disappointing to see what's not being looked at.
Decision Technologies: Currencies and the Social Contract
http://culturalengineer.blogspot.com/2010/07/decision-technologies-currencie...
Capability ENABLES Responsibility
http://culturalengineer.blogspot.com/2008/10/capability-enables-responsibili...
*Tom Crowl* http://CulturalEngineer.blogspot.com
On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Andy Oram <[email protected]> wrote:
I wonder whether anyone on this thread is following this initiative:
I don't see a why to search archives for the group. Here is a key description of the project from one of their slides:
D-CENT will develop an open, federated and decentralised social networking platform for large scale collaboration based on integrating successful open-source codebases that enable to share in real-time open data, democratic decision making, and digital currency for the social good.
I'm not sure why the combine democracy and currency--but it fits exactly with what Tom has been talking about, funding candidates and other campaigns.
Andy
-- *Please note an intrusion wiped out my inbox on February 8; I have no record of previous communication, proposals, etc ..* P2P Foundation: http://p2pfoundation.net - http://blog.p2pfoundation.net <http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation>Updates: http://twitter.com/mbauwens; http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens #82 on the (En)Rich list: http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/