<div dir="ltr">hi David,<div><br></div><div>I may see this a bit differently than yourself,</div><div><br></div><div>i.e. the market itself can have extractive and/or generative forms, and the commons need to interact with the market and the commons,</div><div><br></div><div>in order for the market to work for the commons, it needs to be a generative market, i.e. a non-capitalist or post-capitalist market form or at least a suitable adapted capitalist market form that is kept at arms length</div><div><br></div><div>a commons sector can use 'communist principles' internally, as it does in open source, everybody can contribute and use, or it can use 'socialist principles' internally (reciprocal relationships and allocations); but externally, in this society, it cannot escape relations with the market,</div><div><br></div><div>now in the blockchain space, the commons are geared towards the market, in ways that seem acceptable to most actors in these sectors, as they do for most of open source spaces; but for us, that is not sufficient, since these arrangements still generate major exclusions (higher gini coefficients than normal market relationships) and ecological damages (relatively higher than external); this being said, blockchain economics are tilted far more in favour of labour, however, at the price of exploiting 'external labor'</div><div><br></div><div>so we favour different arrangement, a la Enspiral, in which the market and capital, sustains and grows the commoners and their resources</div><div><br></div><div>but you never talk about commos sectors in your work but about networks</div><div><br></div><div>hence for you, what is important, is that the corporate market form is subsumed to the network form, i.e. there are much less possibilities for vertically integrated oligopolies; in blockchain economies all market players are subsumed to the new network form, which is a hybrid of markets and commons, but they are not completely subsumed to the commons sector as such</div><div><br></div><div>nevertheless, what is already shows is that a network form , allied with a strong commons element, is for market forces, already more competitive than market forms without the commons, that surely, must be significant enough for your TIMN framework,</div><div><br></div><div>open source was the first wave of this, blockchain is the second, and the platform economy is also a form of this</div><div><br></div><div>at a more marginal local level, urban commons are also playing a role in this transformation</div><div><br></div><div>but for a commons sector to thrive as such, major societal reforms would be necessary, i.e. a shift away from extractive financing, to generative financing models</div><div><br></div><div>this is the price to pay for saving the planet, otherwise we are doomed</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 12:29 AM David Ronfeldt <<a href="mailto:ronfeldt@icloud.com">ronfeldt@icloud.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Your email refers to an article about applying blockchain to business actors in a market economy. What interests me far more is the nature of actors who will end up in a new commons sector, possibly after migrating there from the old public and private sectors. Will blockchain-like methods give them advantages? Enough to help form and sustain a distinct commons sector? <br>
<br>
As you know, I think good candidates for this sector will come from health, education, environment, and welfare activities and related insurance entities, following huge reorganizations. A while back I saw an article about blockchain’s promise for insurance, observing among other points that "Blockchain adoption has the power to transition new and existing models of insurance, including P2P insurance, parametric insurance and microinsurance, into a new digital age.” <br>
<br>
The article you circulated about “V-form networks” implies improvements for the market sector. Fine with me. But I’d sure like to see lots more about competitive advantages for a commons sector vis a vis the old public and private sectors, along with cooperative advantages within and without this prospective commons sector. At least I’ve seen few references to using blockchain/ holochain/ whatever in hospitals and schools.<br>
<br>
More generally, i shall hope that this prospective new commons sector (which will be decades in the making) focuses on being itself, the commons sector, and not on transforming all of society. Many problems we have now stem from the public and private sectors trying to be so much more than they should be, distorting our society (including by squeezing and burdening the family /community /household sector). All of which helps explain why I’d say politicians like Bernie Sanders and Alexandra Ocasio-Perez would be well-advised to cease calling for socialism across society as a whole and instead call for socialism in one sector, since the commons sector should meet many of their values and principles. TIMN is not a socialist theory, but it could commend what I just suggested.<br>
<br>
Onward.<br>
<br>
<br>
===<br>
<br>
> On Aug 5, 2018, at 8:19 AM, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com" target="_blank">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> dear James, <br>
> <br>
> in the context of our study, <a href="https://www.foprop.org/stewarding-material-commons" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.foprop.org/stewarding-material-commons</a><br>
> <br>
> perhaps this context is precisely what you could offer us ? I am also still in particular need of a good explanation, for a separate 'explanatory box' of the 3 thermodynamic laws,<br>
> <br>
> Michel<br>
> <br>
> On Sun, Aug 5, 2018 at 2:31 AM <<a href="mailto:jbquilligan3@charter.net" target="_blank">jbquilligan3@charter.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> beyond earthquake, Michel<br>
> <br>
> the global political economy of supply chains restructured by blockchain will be in full operation when emergency rationing is instituted about 2040-2045 due to swelling populations, diminishing levels of arable land, water, fossil fuels and rare minerals and the debilitating effects of climate change<br>
> <br>
> -----------------------------------------<br>
> <br>
> From: "Michel Bauwens" <br>
> To: "Alex Pazaitis", "David Ronfeldt", "Sarah Grace Manski", "xavier rizos", "Xavier BlaqSwans", "Andrea Fumagalli", "Alex Foti", "jose ramos", "p2p-foundation"<br>
> Cc: <br>
> Sent: Saturday August 4 2018 3:27:49AM<br>
> Subject: eco-systemic supply chains are on their way<br>
> <br>
> I hope this can impress some people that are still on the sidelines of this major earthquake, to understand the significance of what is occuring right now, a fundamental re-ordering of the capitalist economy under new models:<br>
> <br>
> first of all, see this article, that shows successfull blockchain trials for supply chains, <a href="https://which-50.com/commbank-and-logistics-giants-complete-blockchain-trade-from-regional-victoria-to-germany/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://which-50.com/commbank-and-logistics-giants-complete-blockchain-trade-from-regional-victoria-to-germany/</a>?<br>
> <br>
> and what it all means in terms of industrial structures see the article quoted below,<br>
> <br>
> but in fact, I don't think their analysis goes far enough, because in the ethereum networks, corporates are already subsumed to a eco-system consisting not just of companies, but of a multitude of other players, including lots of single individuals:<br>
> <br>
> QUOTE<br>
> <br>
> Blockchain-Based Corporate V-Networks<br>
> = "V-form networks consist of a number of fully independent companies that effectively operate as one vertically integrated company through blockchain technology". [1]<br>
> <br>
> Contents [hide] <br>
> • 1 Contextual Citation<br>
> • 2 Description<br>
> • 3 Example<br>
> • 3.1 The IBM and Maersk TradeTech<br>
> Contextual Citation[edit]<br>
> "A blockchain economy will have more, smaller firms linked together by protocols. .. It’s worth pointing out that these networks are inherently global, and any regulatory questions global as well."<br>
> - Chris Berg, Sinclair Davidson and Jason Potts [2]<br>
> <br>
> Description[edit]<br>
> "The Nobel laureate Oliver Williamson distinguishes between U-form companies and M-form companies.<br>
> Traditional U-form companies are unitary — their units are divided by business process (for instance, accounting, human resources, component manufacturing, assembly) and are not treated as separate cost centres.<br>
> M-form companies are multidivisional — their units are self-contained divisions that report profits and losses to an umbrella central body. They’re fully owned by a parent company, but they tend to have their own business services (accounting and human resources departments, for instance) and even market relationships.<br>
> But now we see a new corporate form — the V-form network — made possible because thanks to the application of distributed ledger technology to supply chain problems.<br>
> These V-form networks consist of a number of fully independent companies that effectively operate as one vertically integrated company through blockchain technology, coordinated and supplied by a third party.<br>
> This is a big change to the nature of the firm. We can already see V-form networks in the real world. They date as far back as January. It is surprising the economics community haven’t noticed them yet.<br>
> ...<br>
> <br>
> Blockchains can work to coordinate supply chains without the need for either (traditional) vertical integration or regulation. The vertical integration is outsourced to a distributed ledger. The blockchain provides the managerial service that coordinates each ‘unit’ (that is, firm) in the supply chain.<br>
> Regulators in any country can deal any firm in the supply chain as if it was a small unit of a larger, global company.<br>
> Each firm in the supply chain get the benefits of vertical integration through a network rather than a hierarchy.<br>
> <br>
> ...<br>
> <br>
> In the V-form network, the blockchain’s token establishes the consortium, and incentivizes cooperative behaviour.<br>
> The token also serves to move rents around the network. In this way, the blockchain provides a market mechanism to solve the sort of bargaining problems described by another Nobel laureate, Ronald Coase, that may occur as the network operates.<br>
> Outsourced vertical integration could be applied to many industries that are now integrated. Energy firms that currently integrate the exploration, production, generation, and retail of electricity might be better decomposed, with blockchains and tokens taking the place of head offices. The token economy, rather than energy regulators, could make decisions about the distribution of rents around the network." (<a href="https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814</a>)<br>
> <br>
> Example[edit]<br>
> The IBM and Maersk TradeTech[edit]<br>
> Chris Berg, Sinclair Davidson and Jason Potts:<br>
> "Two weeks into 2018, IBM and the shipping giant Maersk announced a joint venture to develop a digital supply chain management system on their Hyperledger blockchain platform. Hyperledger is a private blockchain which requires permission to access.<br>
> In a previous Cryptoeconomics piece, we described how international trade is an information problem. As goods are shipped around the world, they are accompanied by information — really stacks of paperwork — that describe their provenance, destinations, regulatory and tax liabilities and so on.<br>
> In the IBM-Maersk system, each firm and bureaucracy in the supply chain — producers, shippers, port authorities, regulators, importers, retailers — will access and update a shared blockchain ledger containing all the information needed by each organisation.<br>
> And each organisation would have access to that information everywhere, ensuring complete visibility on where goods are in the world and which economic and regulatory hurdles they next need to overcome." (<a href="https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814</a>)<br>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br>Connect: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.ning.com" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.ning.com</a>; Discuss: <a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a><br><br>Updates: <a href="http://del.icio.us/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://friendfeed.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br><br><br><br></div>