<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><span></span></div><div><span>Thank you Roberto. I agree that to brush over the distinction between the household and the wider social economy will miss qualitative differences, and particularly the one you mention.</span></div><div><br></div><div>Kevin emphasises the recent nature of the nuclear family, but the quality you point to is a characteristic of more extended households. </div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><i>"The basic difference is that members of the household do not put a high priority, if they consider it important at all, to keep track of values created and exchanged within the household."</i></span></font></blockquote><div><br></div>It is that quality, which is not based on reciprocity, which, I maintain, is the foundation of every sustainable society. It emanates from the mother child relationship, (seen as archetype rather than in the particular ways it manifests), which prioritises care and love above exchange values. It is this factor which has been confined as Kevin points out, to the smallest possible unit, because it challenges the very nature of the economy based on scarcity and objectifying people and nature, and which the Commons needs to acknowledge as the ultimate basis of any wholesome relationship. </div><div><br></div><div>Anna<br><i><span></span></i><br><blockquote type="cite"><span>On 15 Oct 2017, at 07:16, Roberto Verzola <<a href="mailto:rverzola@gn.apc.org">rverzola@gn.apc.org</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>I will argue that the household (whether it is a nuclear family or a multi-generational one) is qualitatively different from the other three (govt, market, commons) and therefore deserves to be treated separately.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>The basic difference is that members of the household do not put a high priority, if they consider it important at all, to keep track of values created and exchanged within the household. Governments and markets keep very close track. Those who share common resources presumably want some accounting and tracking too, if not as detailed as the other two, to guard against free-riders and to reward to some extent those who contribute most to the common resource pool.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>In our work on energy, for instance, we consider it important that a microgrid operated as a commons have a bidirectional electric meter (the old analog meter is enough) installed per household, to keep track of imports and exports of electricity. We have, by the way, concluded that net metering is the simplest way to do so, making it a long-term solution to the problem of accounting for the P2P exchanges that will increasingly occur in a grid. (Unlike the feed-in-tariff system successfully pioneered by Germany, which seems to be approaching the end of its useful life.)</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Greetings to all,</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Roberto</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 12:13:15 +0700</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>thanks Kevin, good point,</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Michel</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Message: 1</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2017 14:13:47 -0500</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>From: Kevin Carson <<a href="mailto:free.market.anticapitalist@gmail.com">free.market.anticapitalist@gmail.com</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>To: P2P Foundation mailing list <<a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Subject: Re: [P2P-F] thinking true meta-governance and the gaps in p2p</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> theory regarding the household economy</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Message-ID:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span> <<a href="mailto:CANETeEz58DrDsYAbc9bnak18Z5JnFZHUN102QtdQbXj13VFLuA@mail.gmail.com">CANETeEz58DrDsYAbc9bnak18Z5JnFZHUN102QtdQbXj13VFLuA@mail.gmail.com</a>></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>IMO the boundary between the household and the larger informal/social</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>economy is very permeable. The nuclear family household is relatively</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>recent and artificial, and to a considerable extent encouraged by 20th</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>century capitalism's promotion of social atomization which reduced the</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>household to the smallest possible size which would still socialize</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>the costs of reproducing labor-power and the culture of obedience</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>without providing a potential base for cost-, income- and risk-pooling</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>which might increase the bargaining power of labor. It's quite likely</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>that as total labor hours decline and precarity increases, we'll see a</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>lot more not only of multi-generational houses but of multi-family</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>cohousing, micro-villages and the like that internalize an increasing</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>share of direct production for use.</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org">http://commonstransition.org</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><<a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation">http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a>>Updates:</span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><span>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a></span><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>-- </span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Roberto Verzola <<a href="mailto:rverzola@gn.apc.org">rverzola@gn.apc.org</a>></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>P2P Foundation - Mailing list</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Blog - <a href="http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net">http://www.blog.p2pfoundation.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Wiki - <a href="http://www.p2pfoundation.net">http://www.p2pfoundation.net</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span>Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support.</span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation">https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/donation</a></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span></span><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><span><a href="https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation">https://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation</a></span><br></blockquote></div></body></html>