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What a fascinating discussion Michel and Anna, and exactly the kind
of rant from Rajani that I presently feel is essential for our
times. However I agree that his male/female dichotomy between
aggression and nurturance is problematic. <br>
<br>
What do I know? Well I have found that around this topic, in which,
as with capitalism, we are all complicit, there is a lot of value in
moving towards a definition of love as 'seeking the flourishing of
the other', i.e. widening what might be expected of nurturance, and
parallel, paying attention to the insidious prevalence of domination
both interpersonally and culturally. <br>
<br>
Dominance may have archetypal roots in our place in the food chain
but isn't it independent of gender? And, as it seems to me and the
psychohistorians, as early years child care has become more shared
and better resourced and better understood, new, less bully-ridden
social and interpersonal form of relating may be emerging and along
with it an intolerance of our archaic male dominated politics.
Tricky times.<br>
Denis<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 25/07/2017 09:33, Michel Bauwens
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAK_2xi+44hQ6VXe3Wt94osbRig59YTa42j_oUZx9wZYo6WTM2A@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">thank you Anna,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>perhaps we can formulate it the following way</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>we both reject relations of domination and extraction
towards people and nature,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>and the question is, if we want to remove them
substantially, or totally, what the causes are ? obviously
where we locate them is important</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>so if we look at the relations of domination over nature,
then by and large, I don't think there is any question that
indigenous en non-modern peoples lived dramatically lighter on
the planet, and related to non-human nature in ways that
reflected the recognized inter-dependence of humanity with the
totality of beings and things</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>if we look at the relations with people, then it seems
clear that human-gathering societies were vastly more
egalitarian in nature, but, there was actually more violence
with people 'outside' the community; however, there were also
tribal societies that were very violent internally (think
about the vikings). Once class-society set in however, then
the violence became structural , institutional, structured as
formal domination and extraction.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And with capitalism, the relationship with nature became
vastly extractive and destructive; the structural social
relationships changed into new forms of exploitation, and vast
social movements counter-balanced the domination and
extraction.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>So what does it mean in removing them. If we remove
capitalism, we remove a vast amount of structural extraction,
exploitation and violence; but if we revert or transform into
other forms of class society, we will still have other forms
of structural exploitation; If we remove 'class society'
altogether, we'll have removed much more. What then remains is
"culture". How can we avoid the cultural determinants of
intersubjective violence ?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Obviously, we can learn a lot form indigenous practices,
but re-instating the forms of violence practiced in those
cultures is not something that would be useful.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>My view is that we are hybrid beings, that both genders and
no/trans-genders are mixes, and that we need structures and
cultures that bring the best out of us, and most importantly
capacities to manage conflicts with no or minimal amounts of
violence.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Both agression and non-agression are potentials in all of
us, how we express is very largely determined by our
societies.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>One approach I would find very promising is that of the
prosocial movement of david sloan wilson for example, which
looks at the traits of 'high-pro' individuals , and how to
socially promote them, inspire 'mid-pro' individuals to
emulate them, and to limit the expressions of low-pro
behaviours.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We don't need hierarchy to 'repress' the potential
agression, but a supportive culture and social structure,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michel</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 2:58 PM, Anna
Harris <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">anna@shsh.co.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Dear Michel,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Rereading your emails, there seem to be two
conflicting themes. The evidence you quote about
decreasing levels of violence in our 'civilised'
societies, seems to indicate the need to restrain
natural male aggression, supporting Ranjani's point,
which I have questioned.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In our 'civilised' society, in my view, all our
relationships have elements of 'power over',
reflecting the hierarchical and class divisions you
mention. We know that power over relationships
naturally engender aggression because they threaten
the autonomy and freedom of the individual, both the
one with power and the one subjugated, and thus
necessitate repressive measures to avoid conflict. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Entering post civilisation processes then, (as I
understand that term without I confess having read the
book) insofar as they develop a more egalitarian
society, can in my view, resolve the cause of
aggression and the need for repressive measures -
(here is the importance of quoting the example of
small band hunter gatherer societies as being more
egalitarian and less aggressive)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>However, if men are aggressive by nature, those
repressive measures will still be needed, which
reinstates hierarchy, and we are back to square one.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anna</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On 24 Jul 2017, at 15:45, Anna Harris <<a
href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">anna@shsh.co.uk</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div>Dear Michel,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>We have had this discussion before, and you
have failed to convince me. My reading seems
to have taken me in the opposite direction,
coming across many who see prehistory, and
some still existing people, eg aborigines, as
a time when people lived harmoniously with
each other and environment. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">'Australian
aboriginal people have lived in harmony with
the earth for perhaps as long as 100,000
years; in their words, since the First Day.
In this absorbing work, Lawlor explores the
essence of their culture as a source of and
guide to transforming our own world view.
While not romanticizing the past or
suggesting a return to the life of the
hunter/gatherer, <i>Voices of the First Day</i> enables
us to enter into the mentality of the oldest
continuous culture on earth and gain insight
into our own relationship with the earth and
to each other.</span></div>
<span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
This book offers an opportunity to suspend our
values, prejudices, and Eurocentrism and step
into the Dreaming to discover:<br>
<br>
• A people who rejected agriculture,
architecture, writing, clothing, and the
subjugation of animals<br>
<br>
• A lifestyle of hunting and gathering that
provided abundant food of unsurpassed
nutritional value <br>
<br>
• Initiatic and ritual practices that hold the
origins of all esoteric, yogic, magical, and
shamanistic traditions <br>
<br>
• A sexual and emotional life that afforded
diversity and fluidity as well as marital and
social stability <br>
<br>
• A people who valued kinship, community, and
the law of the Dreamtime as their greatest
"possessions." <br>
<br>
• Language whose richness of structure and
vocabulary reveals new worlds of perception
and comprehension. <br>
<br>
• A people balanced between the Dreaming and
the perceivable world, in harmony with all
species and living each day as the First Day.'</span>
<div><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Anna<br>
</span>
<div><br>
On 24 Jul 2017, at 14:19, Michel Bauwens
<<a
href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">dear Anna,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>if you read anthropological
accounts of Amazonian native tribes,
such as in the books of Pierre Clastre
(societies against the state), and
others, then it seems that warfare was
endemic, he even describes it as
'their favourite passtime'; at the
same time, it was more 'sporadic' ,
since nomadic tribes can move and thus
avoid protacted conflict. This is in
'our times', so you could argue that
it was different 'in the past'. The
evidence does not support it. I had to
revise my romantic notions that
prehistory was less violent. That
evidence was not yet available in the
books I used to read in my youth.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Here is the study showing violence
has percentually decreased since
prehistoric times:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>here is the key passage: "<span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:17px">I have collected
data on violent deaths; the long
list of sources can be found below.
These data show that in prehistoric
times (archeological evidence) and
in non-state societies (ethnographic
evidence) the </span><span
style="box-sizing:border-box;font-weight:700;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:17px">levels of violence
was much higher than in modern state
societies and in the world today</span><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:17px">."</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:17px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:"Helvetica
Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:17px">from </span><font
face="Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
Arial, sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:17px"><a
href="https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://ourworldindata.<wbr>org/ethnographic-and-<wbr>archaeological-evidence-on-<wbr>violent-deaths/</a></span></font></div>
<div><font face="Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:17px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="Helvetica Neue,
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:17px">the study
(of studies) summarized:</span></font></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>"<span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,helvetica,"\00ff2d\00ff33
\00ff30\0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af","\00ff2d\00ff33
\0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af",Osaka,"MS
PGothic",sans-serif;font-size:14.495px">The proportion of human
deaths phylogenetically predicted to
be caused by interpersonal violence
stood at 2%. This value was similar
to the one phylogenetically inferred
for the evolutionary ancestor of
primates and apes, indicating that a
certain level of lethal violence
arises owing to our position within
the phylogeny of mammals. It was
also similar to the percentage seen
in prehistoric bands and tribes,
indicating that we were as lethally
violent then as common mammalian
evolutionary history would predict.
However, the level of lethal
violence has changed through human
history and can be associated with
changes in the socio-political
organization of human populations.
Our study provides a detailed
phylogenetic and historical context
against which to compare levels of
lethal violence observed throughout
our history."</span></div>
<div><span
style="color:rgb(51,51,51);font-family:arial,helvetica,"\00ff2d\00ff33
\00ff30\0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af","\00ff2d\00ff33
\0030b4\0030b7\0030c3\0030af",Osaka,"MS
PGothic",sans-serif;font-size:14.495px"><br>
</span></div>
<div><font face="arial, helvetica, ＭＳ
Ｐゴシック, ＭＳ ゴシック, Osaka, MS PGothic,
sans-serif" color="#333333"><span
style="font-size:14.495px"><a
href="http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v538/n7624/full/nature19758.html"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.nature.com/nature/<wbr>journal/v538/n7624/full/<wbr>nature19758.html</a></span></font><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px"> <br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 24,
2017 at 8:03 PM, Anna Harris <span
dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">anna@shsh.co.uk</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div><span></span></div>
<div>
<div>Thank you Michel.
Actually I was just
questioning whether
aggression and violence are
a <i><b>natural</b></i>
tendency in males, which has
to be supressed. As Rajani
says:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span
style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">"They
managed to restrain male
destructive drives – which
are the scourge of all
living things - within
the prison of affective,
kin relations to the
extent humanly possible:"</span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And unlike you I do not
see aggression and nurturing
as polarities in each of us.
The evidence of prehistory
as I have been reading would
seem to suggest that for
many hundreds of thousands
of years groups of small
band hunter gatherers lived
harmoniously without need
for interfighting. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>See my article : <a
href="http://sublimemagazine.com/healthy-birth-healthy-earth"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://sublimemagazine.com/h<wbr>ealthy-birth-healthy-earth</a></div>
<span
class="m_-5506755059673653498HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Anna</div>
</font></span>
<div>
<div
class="m_-5506755059673653498h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
On 24 Jul 2017, at
10:10, Michel Bauwens
<<a
href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Thanks for this
reaction Anna,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I agree about
agression and
nurturing to be
polarities in each
of us, which may
then be culturally
re-inforced and
fixated in all
kinds of ways by
cultures and
societies,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But patriarchy
predates EM by
thousands of
years, and
gendering predates
patriarchy by tens
of thousands if
not more. It is
easy to forget
that even in
tribal societies,
with very strong
nurturing, and
this could be true
even for
matriarchal
societies (who
engaged in hunt
and had to defend
themselves), that
male initiation
was especially
geared towards
de-sensitizing
males and
habituating them
to violence. A
meta-study last
year was pretty
unequivocal: the
amount of human to
human violence has
dramatically
decreased over
time.
Civilizational and
nation-state based
wars can have a
terrible cost, but
overall, the
percentages are
dramatically lower
than in most
tribal societies
(anthropologists
and others have
counted skeletons
and how they died,
i.e. percentage of
signs of violence
vs illnesses
etc..)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Ironically,
though the balance
and positions
between males and
females have
varied over time,
I think only EM
derivatives have
allowed the
flexibility you
describe.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The question
is: can this be
married with a
return to
nurturing ? To the
degree that we can
enter
post-civilisational
processes (see A.
Chandler for a
definition of
civilization that
is specifically
linked to class
based societies,
the need for
internal
repression, and
thus , the need to
de-sensitize and
make nurturing
more difficult),
we can develop
renewed nurturing
practices. I see a
lot of evidence of
this around me,
and more
specifically, in
EM derived
cultures, while
where I live hear
in East Asia,
maybe because of
earlier forms of
EM influences, the
evolution may go
in the other
direction (a lot
of east-asian
women in the
middle classes do
not want to
nourish their
children directly
because of
aesthetic reasons
for example, and
the men have to
work harder and
are less at home).
The movement for
labor, gender,
race and civic
rights, to the
degree they are
protests against
hierarchical and
class divisions,
are
post-civilisational
and create the
basis for renewed
emphasis on
nurturing. (see
how maternal and
paternal leave
allows parents to
spend more time
with their
children)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michel</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<<<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Message:
1</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Date:
Mon, 24 Jul 2017
08:41:24 +0100</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">From:
Anna Harris <</span><a
href="mailto:anna@shsh.co.uk" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">anna@shsh.co.uk</a><span
style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">To:
P2P Foundation
mailing list <</span><a
href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org"
style="font-size:12.8px"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproje<wbr>ct.org</a><span
style="font-size:12.8px">>,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">
</span><a
href="mailto:rkanth@fas.harvard.edu"
style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rkanth@fas.harvard.edu</a><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Subject:
Re: [P2P-F] Fwd:
What do I Know?</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Message-ID:
<</span><a
href="mailto:624F7EB1-C7EF-44A6-A7E6-6F63E0A5B48D@shsh.co.uk"
style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">624F7EB1-C7EF-44A6-A7E6-6F63E<wbr>0A5B48D@shsh.co.uk</a><span
style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Content-Type:
text/plain;
charset="utf-8"</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Dear
Rajani,</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px"> In
this long rant
there are nuggets
of truth which
shine, but I have
a quibble with one
particular
statement which is
fundamental to
your approach, -
that men are
naturally
aggressive and
violent.</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">"I
also know that men
and women are
profoundly, and
naturally,
dissimilar.</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">By
instinct, men are
aggressive and
violent, and
women are
nurturing".</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Our
definition of what
is masculine and
what is feminine
has been defined
for us by our
culture which, as
you have
demonstrated, has
been contaminated
with EM values.
These definitions
are being
questioned now by
people who don't
fit in to these
gender categories,
who are demanding
at an increasingly
younger age, to be
seen as non
binary. Those of
us who grew up
with these
definitions may be
becoming more
fully aware of our
own discomfort at
being thrust into
one or other of
these gender
categories.</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Progressives
have got so far as
to allow that
masculine and
feminine energies
exist in both men
and women. But it
seems a bridge too
far to question
the very
definition of
masculine and
feminine as
culturally
dictated.</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">While
this may seem
peripheral to your
whole thesis, I
view it as a
radical challenge
to the foundations
of patriarchal
culture which
rests on the
primary division
between male and
female.
(Unfortunately
this has currently
been taken over by
big pharma, since
it paves the way
for drug
dependency from an
early age, and has
actually created
more confusion
about having to
decide to be one
or the other.)</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Nevertheless
the basic
categories are
being questioned
and fatally
blurred, so that
being yourself is
what really
matters. This is a
really positive
step towards your
kin based
affective society,
where kin is seen
as including all
beings.</span><br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<br
style="font-size:12.8px">
<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Anna</span><br
clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div
class="m_-5506755059673653498m_3538356802747477557gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Check out
the Commons
Transition
Plan here at:
<a
href="http://commonstransition.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P
Foundation: <a
href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>
- <a
href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a>
<br>
<br>
Updates: <a
href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;
<a
href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwe<wbr>ns</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the
(En)Rich list:
<a
href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://enrichlist.org/the-comp<wbr>lete-list/</a>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div
class="m_-5506755059673653498gmail_signature"
data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Check out the Commons
Transition Plan here at: <a
href="http://commonstransition.org"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P Foundation: <a
href="http://p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>
- <a
href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a>
<br>
<br>
Updates: <a
href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;
<a
href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.facebook.com/<wbr>mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a
href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://enrichlist.org/the-<wbr>complete-list/</a>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
</div>
-- <br>
<div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a
href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://p2pfoundation.net</a>
- <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a>
<br>
<br>
Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a
href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
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Show some love and help us maintain and update our knowledge commons by making a donation. Thank you for your support.
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