<div dir="ltr">thanks Tibi,<div><br></div><div>what are your thoguhts on the sustainability of lavish lifestyles and how accessible they are for the whole of humanity ?</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:08 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tiberius.brastaviceanu@gmail.com" target="_blank">tiberius.brastaviceanu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Michel, I think capital will be subjected to p2p because p2p has the biggest lever of power, <u>innovation</u>. This is what drives the early manifestations in Sensorica. Corporations will maintain an edge, <u>production</u>, until p2p figures out how to to that reliably and efficiently. We have very little experience with it, but I don't see any important barrier. Automation helps our cause. <div><br></div><div>The natural human tendencies to control, accumulate, and live a lavish life will move within open value networks. I see early signs of it. New entrepreneurial skills are required for open value networks, and some individuals who possess them will become essential. It all depends on how well they will be able to negotiate rewards associated with their essential roles within the OVN. </div><div>There are a lot of people out there that contact me/us and ask to use the NRP and implement the model. Most of them are looking for a software magical solution that can spark and sustain an open venture, until they realize that the NRP is just a tool. I tell people that they need a new set of skills in order to launch a successful peer production operation. These skills are very rare and people who have them will be able to greatly influence these new networks. I am confident that as more and more people acquire these skills the amount of influence these individuals can exert on their networks will diminish, because there are no mechanisms to preserve that power. </div><div><br></div><div>But I am not worried about capital, as it is organized today, because it is losing its commanding height, innovation. </div><div><br></div><div>Again today I exchanged with someone from California, a small startup that burned half of a million in grant money to get a minimal viable product out, they failed and they are now knocking on our door. These exchanges are more and more frequent! Their first attitude is to instrumentalize SENSORICA as a crowdsourcing network, while trying to hold on to the value capturing mechanisms. I tell them that they have two choices, go the Uber of innovation way, preserve their IP and later share their equity with private investors, once they reach critical mass, or the SENSORICA way (500K is plenty to get this project in orbit), and share their equity with their peers who co-develop it. They are considering SENSORICA very, very seriously, because the classical close innovation model doesn't work anymore, too slow, they risk their first to market advantage, they set themselves up for slow penetration rates, etc. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I'm eager to see Tom's reaction, on how his theoretical analysis and wishes, are confronted with the reality of labor commons actually emerging,<div><br></div><div>but I don't share Tibi's analysis that this is un-problematic, in fact, what Tibi and Sensororica are doing, how well would be the question, is to create membranes that 'discipline' extractive capital to the needs of the commoners; if that is NOT done well, it can also be an extractive mechanism that allows corporations to profit from the largely free labour donated to these platforms</div><div><br></div><div>that is as much a struggle as the struggle between labor and capital in commodity labor,</div><div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 19, 2016 at 1:17 AM, Tiberius Brastaviceanu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tiberius.brastaviceanu@gmail.com" target="_blank">tiberius.brastaviceanu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Thanks Tom for sharing this article. I am going to read it with great interest. I copied Alexandre from Ouishare MTL, who has a passion for the future of labor. <div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Here's my first gut reaction to this. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">The underlying assumption is the struggle between labor and capital. But if our economic system is reconfiguring this relationship is no longer the same. </div><div class="gmail_extra">Peer production networks like <a href="http://www.sensorica.co" target="_blank">www.sensorica.co</a> can be seen as new ways of organizing labor, co-managing resources, redistribution of benefits, ... All the means of production belong to individuals, are co-owned or are under nondominium or commons property regimes, and they are shared according to some rules. I don't like to think of the network as an accumulation of labor, labor potential that serves capital, unless you are thinking about centralized crowdsourcing platforms that play the role of intermediary between the crowd and corporations. In the case of SENSORICA I see it as an aggregation of labor, skills, resources, for projects that are driven by the crowd, for the crowd. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">If you bet on platform capitalism and you think that these centralized crowdsourcing platforms will rule the world, the uberization of work, then labor, as subjected to corporations for production, distribution and rewards, then you might want to think of protective measures for labor, you may want to make it possible for labor to achieve a new equilibrium of forces. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">If you bet on peer production a la SENSORICA all this opposition disappears. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">There is a Facebook thread where I mention our observations of capital being more and more subjected to peer production rules, from our experience with servicing corporations. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Some links </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ABmC6YJsszlIPoL-YXU3GF-PLHY0tmQdocBExswh7Lw/edit" target="_blank">Interfaces between open p2p networks and classical institutions</a></div><div class="gmail_extra"><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1F19rvACy80_0k3p32dI2NReuVkmozRvDJceaQCuf8y0/edit" target="_blank">On redistribution of resources</a> <br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 12:53 PM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">thanks Tom,<div><br></div><div>Michel</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 11:36 PM, Tom Walker <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lumpoflabor@gmail.com" target="_blank">lumpoflabor@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Yes, Michel. Briefly, a few years ago I wrote a piece called "Time on the Ledger" that sketches the rudiments of a social accounting framework that could be used by a labour commons unionism. It's posted on Scribd: <a href="https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for-the-Good-Society" target="_blank">https://www.scribd.com/doc/44657733/Time-on-the-Ledger-Social-Accounting-for-the-Good-Society</a></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 4:41 PM, Michel Bauwens <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Could you be very specific about this Tom, <div><br></div><div>I work with post-corporate entrepreneurial coalitions and labour mutuals , and it would be of interest to me if you could explain the practicalities of how this would work ?</div><div><br></div><div>have you looked into contributive accounting systems like Sensorica's</div><div><br></div><div>how does that relate to your ideas,</div><div><br></div><div>for example: <a href="http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations_with_Classical_Institutions" target="_blank">http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Interfacing_Open_Peer_Production_Organizations_with_Classical_Institutions</a><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div>Check<span style="font-size:12.8px">From: Tom Walker <</span><a href="mailto:lumpoflabor@gmail.com" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">lumpoflabor@gmail.com</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span></div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Subject: Re: [P2P-F] Fwd: [NetworkedLabour] Fwd: [Debate-List] (Fwd)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"> Radical leisure, less work, more commoning (Eva Swidler)</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">To: P2P Foundation mailing list <</span><a href="mailto:p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">p2p-foundation@lists.ourproject.org</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Message-ID:</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px"> <</span><a href="mailto:CANz%2BBQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM%2BRpD8rQ@mail.gmail.com" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">CANz+BQxMmvc9SEh1Rf52GHqiJirV_6RCOUzYA_KYJGM+RpD8rQ@mail.gmail.com</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">></span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">I hope this article sparks the conversation that needs to take place. It</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">certainly raises the issues that need to be addressed.</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">In my view, the next step in thinking about labour, leisure and the commons</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">is to conceptualize labour power as a common pool resource. Unions have</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">traditionally bargained for collective terms for individualized work</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">contracts, which reinforces the selling time for money paradigm. "A fair</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">day's work for a fair day's wage." Treating labour power as a common pool</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">resource, however, would require the development of an entirely different,</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">social accounting framework in which collective interests of security and</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">community -- commonalty, to use the Luddites' term -- are prioritized. I've</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><span style="font-size:12.8px">written a few things on labour power as a common pool resource and Paul</span><br style="font-size:12.8px"><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">Burkett discussed the concept in Marx and Nature.</span> </div><div><br></div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br></font></span><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><span><font color="#888888"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div></font></span><span><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></span></div></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu" target="_blank">t!b!</a> <div>co-founder of <a href="http://www.sensorica.co" target="_blank">SENSORICA</a>: <span style="font-size:12.8px">an open </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">value network (or open enterprise)</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">co-founder of </span><a href="http://aces-cake.org/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">CAKE</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">: </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">consulting for the new economy</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">founder of </span><a href="http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">Multitude Project</a>: informing the new multitude<br></div></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about" target="_blank">Google Profile</a></div><div><div>Facebook <a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184" target="_blank">Tiberius Brastaviceanu</a></div>Twitter <a href="http://twitter.com/TiberiusB" target="_blank">@TiberiusB</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div></div></div>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><a href="http://www.google.com/profiles/tiberius.brastaviceanu" target="_blank">t!b!</a> <div>co-founder of <a href="http://www.sensorica.co" target="_blank">SENSORICA</a>: <span style="font-size:12.8px">an open </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">value network (or open enterprise)</span><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">co-founder of </span><a href="http://aces-cake.org/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">CAKE</a><span style="font-size:12.8px">: </span><span style="font-size:12.8px">consulting for the new economy</span><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px">founder of </span><a href="http://multitudeproject.blogspot.ca/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">Multitude Project</a>: informing the new multitude<br></div></div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://plus.google.com/117593809719446924575/about" target="_blank">Google Profile</a></div><div><div>Facebook <a href="http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000279944184" target="_blank">Tiberius Brastaviceanu</a></div>Twitter <a href="http://twitter.com/TiberiusB" target="_blank">@TiberiusB</a></div></div></div></div></div>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at: <a href="http://commonstransition.org" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div><div><br></div>P2P Foundation: <a href="http://p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> - <a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a> <br><br><a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates: <a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>; <a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br><br>#82 on the (En)Rich list: <a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a> <br></div></div></div></div>
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