<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div><br>Would be interesting a wiki Charter of land and natural commons, to be collectivize during The Wsf montreal; and push it through The agenda of green-red-black-lgbt Social and political movements; foreseeing that commons should be managed via Trusts that are Governed by local regional and global assemblies of commons working with direct democracy. When pressure and violence hit this legitimate force, then resistance and enforcemet of peoples' law would gain legitimate popular support. If state and Capital push back then Rojava-Zapatista kind of appropriation would become legitimate as well. </div><div><br></div><div>Orsan</div><div><br>On 16 Jun 2016, at 21:46, Jakob Rigi <<a href="mailto:RigiJ@ceu.edu">RigiJ@ceu.edu</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p>Fine. I agree. But how do we liberate land and nature from capital. I also agree as long as rent exists it must be collected by commons. Marx and Engels proposed something similar in Communist Manifesto.</p>
<p>But, the acute question is : How do we liberate nature? Is there any other way than expropriating capitalists who have by force transformed land and nature into private property? Actually, they have expropriated not only historically nature by force but
they continue to d this presently. Private property in land is the most flagrant form of the robbery of the ruling classes.</p>
<p>Jakob</p>
<p>Jakob </p>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Ellen Friedman <<a href="mailto:ellen@ellenfriedman.com">ellen@ellenfriedman.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 16 June 2016 16:51<br>
<b>To:</b> Jakob Rigi<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Michel Bauwens; p2p-foundation; <a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>; Commoning<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [commoning] [NetworkedLabour] A note on the post-capitalist strategy of the P2P Foundation</font>
<div> </div>
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<div>I think Jakob speaks to something I noticed after reading Michel’s original piece that began this discussion. Michel wrote, "<font color="#252525" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:0.875em; line-height:inherit">Overcoming the capitalist form of
the market, means interfering in capital accumulation. This can and must be done in two ways.</span></font><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">”</font><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3"> </font>
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<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">There’s a third way that’s essential to interfering with capital accumulation. This third way is to liberate the land, waters and all life. The life blood of capitalism is the living planet. Privatization
of the land, water and all life must end. Land and water must be liberated from the social construct of property. Life should never be property. </font></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">One way I see this happening is by creating a polycentric system of planetary commons trusts formed around ecosystems so they can be stewarded both locally and globally. In order to right the wrong of dispossession
and create reparations, local stewardship could be led by indigenous peoples. Once the living planet is in a trust, corporations and governments should be charged rent for using the land, water, minerals and more. This would end externalization of costs. The
trusts could set limits on what is taken in order to restore the planet to health and steward the living land and waters in perpetuity. </font><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37); font-family:sans-serif; font-size:medium">Funds raised in this way could provide
the means for planetary restoration and a basic income for humans.</span></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">There’s a movement to create a fifth missing international crime against peace- ecocide. Corporations who have committed ecocide should be prosecuted, their assets seized and their charters revoked. Seized
assets could be used to remediate the harm and provide additional operational funds for the trusts. For example, BP’s assets could be used to create a trust for the Gulf of Mexico and the people of the area. Exxon’s assets could be used to combat climate change
and provide funds for resettling refugees. </font></div>
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<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">Ellen</font></div>
<div><font color="#252525" face="sans-serif" size="3">Austin, Tx. <br>
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<div>On Jun 16, 2016, at 6:03 AM, Jakob Rigi <<a href="mailto:Rigij@ceu.edu">Rigij@ceu.edu</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Michel,</div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">You simply avoid to answer my questions. Capitalism emerged by dispossessing immediate producers from their means of productions and transforming these producers into waged labourers. Capitalism reproduces itself
by paying wages that are enough for the reproduction of labour power. Thus the worker remain dispossessed. Land and nature as the main source of life are private property of capitalists. No one will ever be able to build a new collective mode of production
without collectivising first land and other means of production and this requires expropriating capitalists: a social revolution. You avoid to answer the questions by the rhetoric that the Marxist strategy has failed. If by the Marxist strategy you mean the
Soviet case, it had some achievements but failed. But, that failure does not imply that the historical project of expropriating capitalist has failed. The industrial capitalism first emerged in Italian city states but was aborted there. Later, in more mature
condition it took not only root in Britain but become globalised. Generalising the soviet experiment in rhetorical way as you do into a law is very mechanistic and deterministic. The failure of the Soviet experiment is by no means prove that a new effort
in our time for expropriating the expropriators will also fail. We need to judged the success and failure of the Soviet case in its historical conditions. </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Jakob</div>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:michelsub2004@gmail.com">michelsub2004@gmail.com</a>>
on behalf of Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>15 June 2016 17:25<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jakob Rigi<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Orsan Senalp; Commoning;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>; p2p-foundation<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NetworkedLabour] A note on the post-capitalist strategy of the P2P Foundation</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Jakob,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>capitalism can only reproduce itself through commodity labor and workers as consumers, this gives us powerful leverage.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>if we don't have the power, nor a social consensus to 'expropriate', the building of counter-hegemonic power is essential to get there ... merely mobilizing counter-power within the capitalist system, i.e. dependent labor, has not worked for 200 years,
and I see few signs that it can. The diverse forms of property that exist, and protected by the state, can be used by commoners to mutualize capital and means of production. Obviously, powerful social movements can set rules to limit monopolistic control of
resources, but then you still have to deal with the impotence of nations to do this, and they most likely will smash you, as they are doing with greece and venezuela and elsewhere. This brings to the fore the other aspect of our strategy, which is to built
counter-hegemonic power at the global level. Just screaming "I hate capitalism and I will smash you" is not going to do it.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The strategy we describe worked for capital and for all the previous transitions (read Karatini), while the marxist strategy of taking power and change everything once we have that power, has been a dismal failure. So I think that continuing in that vein
after 200 years of failure, that is the wishful thinking. It hasn't worked for previous transitions, and isn't working for this transition, so what is your evidence ? Our strategy is based on the necessary prefigurative construction of counter-power, which
is how past transitions were successful</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Michel</div>
<div><br>
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<div><br>
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<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 8:56 PM, Jakob Rigi<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:RigiJ@ceu.edu" target="_blank">RigiJ@ceu.edu</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Mitchel </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">The idea that commoners and cooperative worker can challenge capitalism by working for themselves and make the state their partner is a wishful fantasy- is not realisable. </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Capitalism is in the first place the private ownership in means of production. And the state is in the first place the power and institutions that protect the private property in means of production.</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">No cooperative production can become the dominant mode of production unless land and other strategic means of productions have been transformed into commons.</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Do you agree with this statement? If not what are your counter argument?</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"><br>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">If yes, then how land other strategic means of production can be transformed into commons?</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">I argue that this require expropriating capitalists. If you disagree, what are your counter arguments?</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">If you agree, then, making the production of commons the dominant mode of production requires confronting the sate not becoming its partner. Capitalist did not needed always to expropriate the feudal landowners
since the latter started to lease their land to capitalists. But, capitalists expropriated small owners the means of production-the so called primitive accumulation. The emerging Feudal class did not expropriate the slave owners since salve owners themselves became
feudals. But, capitalist having expropriated the majority of the population and thereby have monopolised the strategic means of production. Transferring these means of production to the majority, meaning making them universal commons of humanity requires expropriating
capitalists. But, state would not allow us to do that. It will tell you that capitalist ownership is guaranteed by the law. And the law is the holiest of the holy. We-the state- will not permit anyone to break the law even if it will be necessary to shed blood. Our
monopoly right our violence is here to protect capitalist property in means of production .</div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">So the commoners mus confront such a state and smash at least its coercive and violent institutions and expropriate the expropriators for the benefit of the humanity as whole and transform their property int universal
commons.</div>
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<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Jakob </div>
<div style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px">Jakob</div>
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<p style="margin-top:0px; margin-bottom:0px"> </p>
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<div dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>NetworkedLabour <<a href="mailto:networkedlabour-bounces@lists.contrast.org" target="_blank">networkedlabour-bounces@lists.contrast.org</a>>
on behalf of Orsan Senalp <<a href="mailto:orsan1234@gmail.com" target="_blank">orsan1234@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>15 June 2016 10:47<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Jakob Rigi; Michel Bauwens<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Commoning;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org" target="_blank">networkedlabour@lists.contrast.org</a>; p2p-foundation<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [NetworkedLabour] A note on the post-capitalist strategy of the P2P Foundation</font>
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<div>There are many overlapping aspect between Cox, and Van Der Pijl's 'transnational historical materialist' analysis and what you have put together Michel.So I share the vision, I only would add a direct-action, political confrontation axe which needs to
be built based on what can be imagined as 'peer to peer social network unionism'. As supportive element in terms of organizing power, and broader alliance building, hence collectivization of working alternatives and to defend them against ruling class violence
and use of force. Not to precede what you suggest or to replace it but simultaneously empower the counter hegemonic transnational trinity (of as in Cox Institutons-material capabilities-ideas / capital-state-nation). </div>
<div><br>
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<div>Orsan<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><br>
On 15 Jun 2016, at 03:56, Michel Bauwens <<a href="mailto:michel@p2pfoundation.net" target="_blank">michel@p2pfoundation.net</a>> wrote:<br>
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some of you may be interested in this short note:</h1>
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Post-Capitalist Strategy of the P2P Foundation</h1>
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<div style="overflow:hidden; min-height:0px; zoom:1; margin-bottom:1.4em"><a href="http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Post-Capitalist_Strategy_of_the_P2P_Foundation#mw-head" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(11,0,128)"></a><a href="http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Post-Capitalist_Strategy_of_the_P2P_Foundation#p-search" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(11,0,128)"></a></div>
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<span>Discussion</span><span style="font-size:small; margin-left:1em; vertical-align:baseline; line-height:1em; display:inline-block; font-family:sans-serif"><span>[</span><a href="http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/index.php?title=Post-Capitalist_Strategy_of_the_P2P_Foundation&action=edit&section=1" title="Edit section: Discussion" target="_blank" style="text-decoration:none; color:rgb(11,0,128)">edit</a><span>]</span></span></h1>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit">Michel Bauwens:</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit">"A note on the post-capitalist strategy of the P2P Foundation</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit">Following Kojin Karatini, we agree that the present system is based on a trinity of capital-state-nation, which represents an integration of three modes of exchange. Capital represents a particular market form
based on the endless accumulation of capital, the state is the entity that keeps the system together through coercion, law and redistribution (Karatini calls this function ‘rule and protect’), and the nation is the ‘imagined community’ that is the locus of
the survival of community and reciprocity. A post-capitalist strategy must necessarily overcome all three in a new integration.</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit">Overcoming the capitalist form of the market, means interfering in capital accumulation. This can and must be done in two ways. First of all, the capitalist market requires labor as a commodity, and therefore,
overcoming capitalism means refusing to work for capitalism as commodity labor. Hence the stress on open cooperativism, i.e. commoners work for themselves, in democratic associations and create autonomous livelihoods around our commons, protected from value
capture through membranes such as reciprocity-based licenses. Measures like the basic income also substantially remove the compulsion for workers to have to sell their labor power, and would strengthen the capacity to create alternative economic entities.
However, we must proceed with the reality that exists today, and create our own funding and resource allocation mechanisms. The second way is to withdraw from capitalism and capital accumulation is by removing our cooperation as consumers. Without workers
as producers and workers as consumers, there can be no reproduction of capital. The latter means the invention and creation of new forms of consumption that are derived from the creation of open cooperatives. Workers mutualize their consumption in pooled market
forms such as community-supported agriculture and the like. To the degree that we systematically organize new provisioning and consumption systems, outside of the sphere of capital, we undermine the reproduction of capital and capital accumulation. In addition,
we create ‘transvestment’ vehicles, which allow the acceptance of capital, as disciplined by the new commons and market forms that we develop through peer production, this creates a flow of value from the system of capital to the system of the commons economy.
Faced with a crisis of capital accumulation, it is entirely realistic to expect a stream of value which seeks a place in the commons economy. Instead of the cooptation of the commons economy by capital, in the form of the netarchical capitalist platforms which
capture value from the commons, we coopt capital inside the commons, and subject it to its rules.</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit"><br>
I believe we can achieve similar effects with the state. Our strategy for a ‘partner state’ is to ‘commonify’ the state. We strive to transform state functions so that they actually empower and enable the autonomy of the citizens as individuals and groups,
to create common resources, instead of being ‘consumers’ of state services. We abolish the separation of the state from the population by increasing democratic and participatory decision-making. We consider the public service as a commons, giving every citizen
and resident the right to work in the commonified public services. But we don’t ‘withdraw’ completely from the state because we need common good institutions for everyone in a given territory, which creates equal capacities for every citizen to contribute
to the commons and the ethical market organizations.</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit"><br>
In another article we have argued that the capital-state-nation trinity is no longer able to balance global capitalism, because it has created a very powerful transnational financial class, which is able to move resources globally and discipline the state and
the nations that dare rebalance it. Our answer is to create trans-local and trans-national civic and economic entities that can eventually rebalance and counter the power of the transnational capitalist class. This is realistic because peer production technologies
create global open design communities that mutualize knowledge on a global scale, and because we can create global and ethical market organizations around them. Even as we produce locally, we organize trans-local productive communities. These trans-local productive
communities are no longer bound by the nation-state and project and require forms of governance that can operate on the global scale. In this way, they also transcend the power of the nation-state. As we explained in our strategy regarding the global capitalist
market, these forces can operate against the accumulation of capital at the global level, and create global counter-hegemonic power. In all likelihood, this will create global governance mechanisms and institutions that are no longer inter-national, but trans-national,
but are not transnational capitalism.</div>
<div style="margin:0.5em 0px; line-height:inherit">In conclusion, our aim is to replace the capital-state-nation trinity, which is no longer functioning, and to avoid global domination of private capital, by creating a new integrative trinity, Commons-Ethical
Market- Partner State, that is not confined to the nation-state level, but can operate trans-nationally and transcend the older and dysfunctional trinity. Through these processes, citizens develop cosmopolitan subjectivities but also allegiance to local and
trans-national commons-oriented communities of value creation and value distribution."</div>
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</div>
<div><br>
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--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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<div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://commonstransition.org/" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P Foundation:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><span>_______________________________________________</span><br>
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</blockquote>
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--<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<div class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Check out the Commons Transition Plan here at:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://commonstransition.org/" target="_blank">http://commonstransition.org</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
P2P Foundation:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://p2pfoundation.net</a> -<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/" target="_blank">http://blog.p2pfoundation.net</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
<br>
<a href="http://lists.ourproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/p2p-foundation" target="_blank"></a>Updates:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://twitter.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/mbauwens</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/mbauwens</a><br>
<br>
#82 on the (En)Rich list:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/" target="_blank">http://enrichlist.org/the-complete-list/</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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_______________________________________________<br>
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